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Post by sssouth on Aug 3, 2019 15:03:53 GMT -5
My sister's highschool coach is bent on running a 3 middle offense with 2 setters, however, he truly does not know how to do this. Running a 5-1 is out of the question as both setters are around 5'4" and are blocking liabilities. I would greatly appreciate any advice as to how this offense would work, specifically who would sub for the setters front row and serve receive formations for rotations 1 and 6. Thank you in advance for your help!
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Post by finalthoughts on Aug 3, 2019 15:16:00 GMT -5
What I see as the most likely outcome here:
6-2 Offense, Setters in the front row would be replaced by OPP/RS
One of your OPP/RS players runs a slide approach instead of a pin approach (there's your third "middle"). This only works if you have a pair of middles (2/3) who are primarily good at 1 and 2 foot takeoffs, respectively
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Aug 3, 2019 15:26:31 GMT -5
If they don’t know how to set it up than they probably dont pass well enough to run it. They should just run a 6-2. Its hs, you don’t have enough to walk through every rotation to get the kids comfortable with it. You will spend more time trying to get them in rotation than playing volleyball.
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Post by hammer on Aug 3, 2019 15:29:18 GMT -5
My sister's highschool coach is bent on running a 3 middle offense with 2 setters, however, he truly does not know how to do this. Running a 5-1 is out of the question as both setters are around 5'4" and are blocking liabilities. I would greatly appreciate any advice as to how this offense would work, specifically who would sub for the setters front row and serve receive formations for rotations 1 and 6. Thank you in advance for your help! How any subs are you allowed? |
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Post by sssouth on Aug 3, 2019 21:58:42 GMT -5
My sister's highschool coach is bent on running a 3 middle offense with 2 setters, however, he truly does not know how to do this. Running a 5-1 is out of the question as both setters are around 5'4" and are blocking liabilities. I would greatly appreciate any advice as to how this offense would work, specifically who would sub for the setters front row and serve receive formations for rotations 1 and 6. Thank you in advance for your help! How any subs are you allowed? They are allowed 12 subs |
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Post by hammer on Aug 3, 2019 23:59:45 GMT -5
How any subs are you allowed? They are allowed 12 subs Ok, you alternate Middle Blockers with Outside Hitters. If we assume your Middles aren't able to pass (because they are basically incompetent at that skill), then you need a DS to sub into the back row for one of your Middle Hitters. Your L would sub in for a Middle and an OH. If I'm doing the math right, this gets you three complete rotations through your lineup before you run out of subs. If one of your three middles is decent defensively and you can avoid the DS sub, then you get four complete rotations. Obviously you need to plan/practtice for the situation when you run out of subs. That's when you'll be forced into a 5-1 offense. If your DS is really short you might have to leave a middle in the back row anticipating her rotation into the front row; otherwise you end up with a DS in the front row. |
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moody
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Posts: 18,679
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Post by moody on Aug 4, 2019 10:01:50 GMT -5
where is this? Isn't it 18 subs according to the National High School Federation?
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Aug 4, 2019 10:28:55 GMT -5
What would be the most complicated rotation imaginable?
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Post by bayarea on Aug 4, 2019 11:18:44 GMT -5
Why not just have one of the middles play Opposite? I think that's what most teams with an overabundance of MB talent and weakness at the other positions do.
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Post by sssouth on Aug 4, 2019 12:12:09 GMT -5
where is this? Isn't it 18 subs according to the National High School Federation? Texas; when I watched them scrimmages yesterday, they were only allowed 12 subs, but this may have just been for that day. |
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Post by sssouth on Aug 4, 2019 12:27:29 GMT -5
Why not just have one of the middles play Opposite? I think that's what most teams with an overabundance of MB talent and weakness at the other positions do. That would be what everyone has been recommending to the coach, but according to him the 3 middle offense "gon let us shake up the opposing blockers" I think one of the middles transitioning to opposite is what will eventually happen (hopefully) |
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Post by crando on Aug 4, 2019 15:45:46 GMT -5
As others have said, you can go conventional, and have one MB basically play as a RS, and have the two setters sub as usual, and then libero the other 2 MBs. And the MB/Opp can switch around with the other (regular) MB who's in the front row with her, to play tricks on the blockers. But that's just having a MB play OPP; not really a 3-MB lineup.
With 18 subs, you have more options with a true 3-middle; with 12 subs, it gets interesting. For a true 3-MB lineup, every other player in the service order is a MB. So no MB is opposite another MB. To keep both setters completely out of the front row, they have to go in for players who are opposite each other, and to fully use your Libero, she would go in for two players who are opposite each other, which leaves: 1) one MB playing back row; or 2) subbing in a third spot to use a DS for that MB (which gets you towards the sub limits); or 3) having 2 OHs play all around, and using the Libero for 2 MBs, meaning the Lib only plays 5 rotations and one MB plays one rotation of back row; (or 4: the setters aren't exactly opposite each other, and 1 setter plays 1 rotation of front row).
So, basically, you could do it, but I'd want to have some really good reasons to do it the complicated way (and you'd need to spend tons of time training the team on a rotation-by rotation basis, and also know that if you need to sub out one of the highly-specialized players that you probably don't have a sub with the exact same skill-set, so you'd probably need to switch back to a conventional lineup): like a couple middles who hit well everywhere, and at least one OH who hits great on the left and right, and a mb who can play back row (and maybe even serve receive).
To be honest, if you have a coach who has really thought it through enough to decide that this roster has enough uniquely-skilled players to do this, then that coach is probably also clever enough to figure out HOW to set it up. And if the coach isn't sure how to set it up, then he probably doesn't really know that it'd be better to do something this fancy -- he's doing it because it seems cool, but not because he really knows why/how it would be better to do something different than what 98% of all fairly-to-really smart coaches do.
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Post by sonofdogman on Aug 5, 2019 0:35:24 GMT -5
Since you don't know how this offense would work and are asking advice on it, how do you know the coach doesn't truly know what he's doing? What isn't he doing correctly in your opinion? What role does your sister play on the team?
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Post by wonderwarthog79 on Aug 5, 2019 1:00:32 GMT -5
I'm guessing that the middle hitters involved all like shorter sets. Fine, just run a conventional offense without any switching in the front. Let the setters mostly set shoots to the outside, 1's and 2's in the middle front and back. Forget the slides. Still hard to believe that the setters would be good enough to do this consistently, however.
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Post by donneyp on Aug 5, 2019 11:11:52 GMT -5
A MH at RS isn't a 3 middle offense, that's just playing three middles.
Start with this.
_____________
M3 O1 M2
O2 M1 S1
When they get to rotation 4 you sub in S2 for M3, and O3 for S1. You libero one of the other pairs (lets say M2 and 02) and the other pair (in this case 01 and M1) go 6 rotations, or maybe you DS one of them.
To figure out the serve receive patterns a coach need only sit down with a full pad of paper, a couple pencils (I like mechanical) and their favorite adult beverage (helps with the creativity). I start with 3 columns and 6 rows (18 rectangles). You have a column for the rotational positions, a column for the receive positions, and a column for the base defensive positions, and a row for each of the 6 rotations. First time through is theoretical and then when you see what you have, you try plugging the actual people you have into the theoretical roles and determine if you like that lineup.
FWIW, this is basically the same exercise I go through no matter what system I'm running. Some coaches prefer white boards to note pads but I like to save my work so I prefer the notepad.
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