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Post by geedawg on Aug 22, 2019 19:27:10 GMT -5
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Post by bayarea on Aug 22, 2019 20:45:55 GMT -5
Great article. I think autocorrect changed MHP's name from Paredes to Padres in your header.
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Post by geedawg on Aug 22, 2019 22:21:44 GMT -5
Great article. I think autocorrect changed MHP's name from Paredes to Padres in your header. Oops... I'd better change it since I'm Canadian, eh? At least I caught the Human part! 😉
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Post by wang pu on Aug 22, 2019 23:44:38 GMT -5
"I am fortunate that part of my reward for winning the World Championships is a guaranteed berth at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, otherwise I would be continuing to race to get 12 Olympic qualifying events in, just to meet the requirements."
Wasn't the thinking that the WC spot still went to the Federation?
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2019 0:14:34 GMT -5
I love MHP and she is one half of my favorite non-KW team but she should really look inward and also look at other things more skeptically. "BVB is one of the more popular sports at the Olympics", but so is swimming and the 100m dash. The key word in that passage is "Olympics" not "BVB."
This seems, once again, somewhat entitled. Athletes are entertainers and not enough people find the game entertaining. Part of it is that the constant focus on the Olympics detracts from the popularity of the sport. The constant focus on qualifying, rather than winning whatever event, cheapens the events and makes them seem less important. Also the skipping of events. "Why dont fans show up?" "Oh BTW, even though I am one of the most popular players, I am skipping KL, Sydney etc." "But why dont fans show up when I do show up"
KW/BS had a unique challenge, but they played 16 events in this "season" MHPavs played 11. Thats basically 1/3rd of the chances to create fans, build the sport etc. and they didnt do the bare minimum, show up for fans.
One of my favorite stories about Sinjin Smith, that was shared by Kent Steffes, is about why Steffes was no longer sponsored by Sideout. He talked about Sinjin arriving two days early to an event to go on a small biplane flight into some wilderness camp to meet with potential sponsors for an event. Not potential sponsors for Sinjin, for an event. Kent basically said he was unwilling to put in that level of promotion. Thats an attitude 90% of the current players seem to hold, they want to "make a living" and that usage is also pretty offensive, but they only want to do the work they want to, rather than whats needed
At the average event, a player like MHP is "working" maybe 3 hours a day when you include warming up, maybe 6 if they practice or watch film. When do they make appearances, do local media etc. Where is the Shellback's party hosted by MHP and Alix Klineman, when is Taylor Crabb running a free juniors clinic, is Agatha making an appearance on Qatar Today? Did MHP send a video to the Gstaad cable channel threatening to tear Duda's face off?
BVB as it stands is largely a series of one-off events funded in part by local promoters. If you want to know why its failing, maybe go ask those local promoters what they didnt get from the players, what support would have helped them, and how working with the FIVB could have been easier etc.
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Post by beavis on Aug 23, 2019 1:13:45 GMT -5
How on earth would you know what happens at an average event? You are exactly what is wrong with beach volleyball - someone who seems to know every answer about what is wrong with these events but who has never attended, volunteered or otherwise supported a single stateside event, and who thus has no idea how many hours of how much effort these players put in at each one. Nice Shellback reference from someone who has absolutely no idea what might have gone on there, how many players were hanging around and talking to their fans, etc. Please stop stating, as fact (like the 3 hours statement), things that you know as absolutely nothing about.
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Post by acrossthepond on Aug 23, 2019 3:42:06 GMT -5
I love MHP and she is one half of my favorite non-KW team but she should really look inward and also look at other things more skeptically. "BVB is one of the more popular sports at the Olympics", but so is swimming and the 100m dash. The key word in that passage is "Olympics" not "BVB." This seems, once again, somewhat entitled. Athletes are entertainers and not enough people find the game entertaining. Part of it is that the constant focus on the Olympics detracts from the popularity of the sport. The constant focus on qualifying, rather than winning whatever event, cheapens the events and makes them seem less important. Also the skipping of events. "Why dont fans show up?" "Oh BTW, even though I am one of the most popular players, I am skipping KL, Sydney etc." "But why dont fans show up when I do show up" KW/BS had a unique challenge, but they played 16 events in this "season" MHPavs played 11. Thats basically 1/3rd of the chances to create fans, build the sport etc. and they didnt do the bare minimum, show up for fans. One of my favorite stories about Sinjin Smith, that was shared by Kent Steffes, is about why Steffes was no longer sponsored by Sideout. He talked about Sinjin arriving two days early to an event to go on a small biplane flight into some wilderness camp to meet with potential sponsors for an event. Not potential sponsors for Sinjin, for an event. Kent basically said he was unwilling to put in that level of promotion. Thats an attitude 90% of the current players seem to hold, they want to "make a living" and that usage is also pretty offensive, but they only want to do the work they want to, rather than whats needed At the average event, a player like MHP is "working" maybe 3 hours a day when you include warming up, maybe 6 if they practice or watch film. When do they make appearances, do local media etc. Where is the Shellback's party hosted by MHP and Alix Klineman, when is Taylor Crabb running a free juniors clinic, is Agatha making an appearance on Qatar Today? Did MHP send a video to the Gstaad cable channel threatening to tear Duda's face off? BVB as it stands is largely a series of one-off events funded in part by local promoters. If you want to know why its failing, maybe go ask those local promoters what they didnt get from the players, what support would have helped them, and how working with the FIVB could have been easier etc. While I don't agree with your Olympics point, I can find quite some truth to the other points you are making. I am a Beach Volleyball maniac and still many of the athletes are faceless to me. To be honest I cannot even distinguish the Crabb brothers. Why, you may ask? To me they are simply 2 Americans who look alike and are boring as hell. They have no charisma, they simply appear to games at tournaments, leave right afterwards and not even show any emotions in between. Then they disappear until their next games start. What do I mean by that? They are invisible apart from the time spending on court. They are losing the social media game. They are faceless. Why should I cheer for players who do not even seem to enjoy themselves on the court. Alison for example may not be the most technically gifted Beach Volleyball player, but hell, he knows how to entertain the crowd without being able to speak even one word English. I have never seen the KcKibbin brothers play in a tournament, but I like them. They show me what they do while being thousands of miles away. They put effort in to becoming a brand. They may be a mediocre team, but when I check results of the AVP every now and then they are the team I am looking for first. So in a nutshell, athletes have to create a brand for them. A few athletes and teams already understand this and have created different ways of interacting with people. Alex Walkenhorst said it best on his podcast: Players are entrepreneurs in a sense of that they not only have to be able to play, but also do marketing for themselves. As long as you are not interesting, nobody will be interested in you. Note: The Crabbs are just one example. I could have used lots of other players to make my point.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2019 6:21:51 GMT -5
How on earth would you know what happens at an average event? You are exactly what is wrong with beach volleyball - someone who seems to know every answer about what is wrong with these events but who has never attended, volunteered or otherwise supported a single stateside event, and who thus has no idea how many hours of how much effort these players put in at each one. Nice Shellback reference from someone who has absolutely no idea what might have gone on there, how many players were hanging around and talking to their fans, etc. Please stop stating, as fact (like the 3 hours statement), things that you know as absolutely nothing about. The 3 hours refers to match time plus warmup both of which are published. But assume you are right and I know nothing, you essentially make the point I was making, I follow the game more than probably 98% of fans. I follow a couple dozen players on social media, watch matches on 4 platforms including 2 dodgy apps downloaded for the purpose. If the word of the great pub that players are doing isn't reaching someone who watches all of MHP's YouTube video, then it isn't good enough
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Post by ajm on Aug 23, 2019 7:12:26 GMT -5
"I am fortunate that part of my reward for winning the World Championships is a guaranteed berth at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, otherwise I would be continuing to race to get 12 Olympic qualifying events in, just to meet the requirements." Wasn't the thinking that the WC spot still went to the Federation? Yes, but Canada has told its teams that if they win the spot they will go to the Olympics. Same with the China qualifying event. USAV seems to be doing things a bit differently and just going by points.
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Post by itsallrelative on Aug 23, 2019 7:32:05 GMT -5
As long as you are not interesting, nobody will be interested in you. Note: The Crabbs are just one example. I could have used lots of other players to make my point. I would argue that at least Trevor has a public personality on/off the court...unlike a lot of the players today.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 23, 2019 7:58:35 GMT -5
How on earth would you know what happens at an average event? You are exactly what is wrong with beach volleyball - someone who seems to know every answer about what is wrong with these events but who has never attended, volunteered or otherwise supported a single stateside event, and who thus has no idea how many hours of how much effort these players put in at each one. Nice Shellback reference from someone who has absolutely no idea what might have gone on there, how many players were hanging around and talking to their fans, etc. Please stop stating, as fact (like the 3 hours statement), things that you know as absolutely nothing about. Beavis, don't get too literal with what guest2 is saying. Overall he is right, but not as much as he thinks. here are some of the players on the men's side who work hard at promoting Vball. Loomis, travels and plays a ton in the offseason I think with volleyball vacations McKibbons, we know. Ed, has a pretty good FB presence and a big club Billy Allen writes, blogs, coaches Travis we know Patterson a bit, not too much anymore I'd say that is the list of who truley promote the game. What IS missing, are the "superstars" Phil does some social medial stuff and he and Nick do a few clinics in the off-season. Gibb, no Social media Tri has really backed off his stuff Crabbs??? nope. Budinger? not that I know of Priddy - he's backed off his stuff Ugghh, i can't repeat my issues on this whole topic.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2019 11:45:17 GMT -5
How on earth would you know what happens at an average event? You are exactly what is wrong with beach volleyball - someone who seems to know every answer about what is wrong with these events but who has never attended, volunteered or otherwise supported a single stateside event, and who thus has no idea how many hours of how much effort these players put in at each one. Nice Shellback reference from someone who has absolutely no idea what might have gone on there, how many players were hanging around and talking to their fans, etc. Please stop stating, as fact (like the 3 hours statement), things that you know as absolutely nothing about. Beavis, don't get too literal with what guest2 is saying. Overall he is right, but not as much as he thinks. here are some of the players on the men's side who work hard at promoting Vball. Loomis, travels and plays a ton in the offseason I think with volleyball vacations McKibbons, we know. Ed, has a pretty good FB presence and a big club Billy Allen writes, blogs, coaches Travis we know Patterson a bit, not too much anymore I'd say that is the list of who truley promote the game. What IS missing, are the "superstars" Phil does some social medial stuff and he and Nick do a few clinics in the off-season. Gibb, no Social media Tri has really backed off his stuff Crabbs??? nope. Budinger? not that I know of Priddy - he's backed off his stuff Ugghh, i can't repeat my issues on this whole topic. Kerri does, but of the superstars she is the only one I can think of who does. (Too bad she isnt very good at it) I think your list fairly characterizes everyone on it, but with the exception of Billy's writing/podcasting and the McKibbins I think a lot of the "promoting" above is more direct work for compensation - coaching for example. Fine line to be sure. I need to make a note to start rooting for Billy because you are right he does a ton of promotion
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Post by 704 on Aug 23, 2019 12:51:09 GMT -5
I think Mark Burik should be added to that list of hard workers. His Youtube channel is awesome if you're a B/A level player trying to get better. After reading the Chicago registration thread, he seems to be thought of negatively on this board which is surprising because that is not my experience with him at all. In person, he's very nice and a great coach/instructor.
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Post by dunninla3 on Aug 23, 2019 12:51:31 GMT -5
1) Part of it is that the constant focus on the Olympics detracts from the popularity of the sport. 2) The constant focus on qualifying, rather than winning whatever event, cheapens the events and makes them seem less important. Re 1), I'm on the other side of that fence from you. The Olympics is the only reason that "Olympic Sports" are televised. Olympic Sports has become the marketing term for Track and Field, Gymnastics, Figure Skating, Sailing, Alpine Skiing, Curling, Ski Jumping, Swimming, Archery and basically any sport that isn't profitably standing on its own outside of the Olympics. Sports that actually make money are never called Olympic Sports.... Football/Soccer, American Football, Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, MMA, Boxing We have in the US the Olympic Channel. Doesn't carry any sport that makes money, only money losers AKA "Olympic Sports". If you take out the Olympics, there is no FIVB, and the AVP would have failed miserably in the early 2000s. World Championships mean nothting other than the event half way in between Olympic Games. Why do you think Professional Beach Volleyball limits teammates to players holding the same passport? I was watching the AVP/FIVP 2018 Huntington Beach Open, and Stokos kept calling the A-Team "the Americans", and Bialek/Schneider "the Germans". Nationalism sells. The home nest of nationalism is sport is the Olympics. The Olympics sells because nationalism sells. A long time ago I was raced sailboats. In sailing, the biggest televised event is the America's Cup. For a while, it was a free for all in hiring crew from any country, even though it was a Country that sponsored the boat. USA vs. New Zealand. New Zealand vs. Switzerland. And over 50% of the crew on every boat was from New Zealand! They changed that with a citizenship requirement, and now the team or teams allowed to enter are from a Country, and must have mostly citizen crew members. Nationalism. Out of the America's Cup recently emerged a Formula 1 type concept called Sail GP with Cats that exceed 50 knots. Seven teams. Again, country based with citizenship requirements... New Zealand, Australia, USA, UK, France, Japan and China. Backed by Larry Ellison from Oracle and Russell Coutts, the GOAT of America's cup skippering. Nationalism sells. Minor sports don't... unless they're Olympic sports. 2). Agree 100% with this. But I don't know of a suitable alternative. You can't just let each Federation pick two teams... you'd have a 60 team Olympic first round.
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Post by wang pu on Aug 23, 2019 13:03:29 GMT -5
Beavis, don't get too literal with what guest2 is saying. Overall he is right, but not as much as he thinks. here are some of the players on the men's side who work hard at promoting Vball. Loomis, travels and plays a ton in the offseason I think with volleyball vacations McKibbons, we know. Ed, has a pretty good FB presence and a big club Billy Allen writes, blogs, coaches Travis we know Patterson a bit, not too much anymore I'd say that is the list of who truley promote the game. What IS missing, are the "superstars" Phil does some social medial stuff and he and Nick do a few clinics in the off-season. Gibb, no Social media Tri has really backed off his stuff Crabbs??? nope. Budinger? not that I know of Priddy - he's backed off his stuff Ugghh, i can't repeat my issues on this whole topic. Kerri does, but of the superstars she is the only one I can think of who does. (Too bad she isnt very good at it) I think your list fairly characterizes everyone on it, but with the exception of Billy's writing/podcasting and the McKibbins I think a lot of the "promoting" above is more direct work for compensation - coaching for example. Fine line to be sure. I need to make a note to start rooting for Billy because you are right he does a ton of promotion With all the money that KWJ has, she should hire a social media director to provide guidance. I really like MHP youtube channel. She seems so genuine. I wish she did more vlogs.
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