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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 22, 2019 21:57:43 GMT -5
Dear AVP: There was no visual or audible scoring during the Manhattan Qualifier and even on some of the courts on Friday. Ask a ref? Well, that didn’t go so well. I “had to learn” the down ref, should there be one was responsible for that (should there be one). The request? Well, I was told, MUST be predicated with a “please” even though they announce the score, though it is “generally inaudible”. The customer is King? Well, maybe not in Manhattan (LOL). So, I pose the question: Can’t something be done? No money, etc.. OK, I’m on board…
Well then, how about a creative small table (there are generally ones at most courts) with a flip chart (buy in bulk, get that volume discount) and small umbrella (ADD access to the players’ water if you REALLY want to take this over the top). Re-usable sign: Dynamic Scorekeeper Volunteer Needed in this seat. Score a game, under the shade and have a water or two.
That won’t work? Well, whats your BETTER idea, because, IMHO, NOBODY, outside of the players and ref’s could give you the score in the outer courts at any random point in time. I didn’t do a scientific survey, but based on my sample size of about 20 requests, the results were “underwhelming”…. PLEASE, let us know the score…It REALLY makes the game more compelling (PLUS, I don’t want to look like an idiot when the ref says “Match Point!”. Uh, thanks ref. . . .:-(
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 22:04:02 GMT -5
if you're not paying, you're not the customer
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Post by downtheline on Aug 22, 2019 22:31:19 GMT -5
You pay to use Google?
You’d better believe they treat you as if your a customer , client, sucker, source of valuable marketing data, fishing you all day & night with sales schemes.
Yup you don’t have to pay to be a customer...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2019 23:01:41 GMT -5
the customers are the people they sell ads to. you’re the product
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 23, 2019 1:37:06 GMT -5
OK, I get the customer stuff, but WHAT ABOUT THE SCORE? Really, is the best solution, currently in play, to be able to "overhear the ref score"?
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Post by dunninla3 on Aug 23, 2019 11:47:33 GMT -5
Disagree: The Mantra "grow the game", which has been typed here at least 100 times over the past couple of years when discussing the future of the AVP, depends on sponsors. How do you get sponsors? Viewers.
So who is the real customer?
- Viewers on site + Viewers Online = marketing reach
- Marketing Reach -> sponsors
You can't have a Sponsor (which you mistakenly call "the Customer") without a market (Viewers)
Viewers are then really the primary customer. Sponsors go where viewers are, therefore sponsors are the secondary customer.
When the AVP/Refs don't respect what the viewer (primary customer) wants, that's cutting the tree down at its roots/ Those outer court refs are cutting down the tree one chop at a time every time they don't work with the primary customer. It's terrible customer service. It makes the on site viewers (primary customers) think they're not wanted or needed.
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 23, 2019 12:37:01 GMT -5
Disagree: The Mantra "grow the game", which has been typed here at least 100 times over the past couple of years when discussing the future of the AVP, depends on sponsors. How do you get sponsors? Viewers. So who is the real customer? - Viewers on site + Viewers Online = marketing reach - Marketing Reach -> sponsors You can't have a Sponsor (which you mistakenly call "the Customer") without a market (Viewers) Viewers are then really the primary customer. Sponsors go where viewers are, therefore sponsors are the secondary customer. When the AVP/Refs don't respect what the viewer (primary customer) wants, that's cutting the tree down at its roots/ Those outer court refs are cutting down the tree one chop at a time every time they don't work with the primary customer. It's terrible customer service. It makes the on site viewers (primary customers) think they're not wanted or needed. Agreed, wholeheartedly. The problem with "customers" is, their overall experience is "virtually unmeasurable" and clearly so in a small population as an AVP event. What gets measured, gets done. Say you COULD measure customer satisfaction and subsequent behavior (fans leaving venue, "talking it up to others" and bringing more fans on board because of some "element" (eg. knowing the score, understanding who is the better players as they know the score and realize a 4 point comeback was done over the last 10 minutes). THEN you might change behavior. Now, I'm afraid, the refs are "meeting requirements" as we would say at my days at IBM. Definitely not "Consistently exceeding requirements". But, all employees fall into a process and work within. As the saying goes: "Systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get", with that in mind, the scoring, currently, is working PERFECTLY. There is a flawed system (unchecked, maybe unwritten) and it is playing itself out, each tournament at a time. NET: Nobody, virtually, knows the score at an AVP qualifier (OR Main Draw without flip charts and/or scoreboards). AND, by the way, you wouldn't have believed how many people didn't notice the flip chart (when one was present). Is it the "customers" fault they didn't notice the flip chart? Many might nod in agreement. Read "The Design of Everyday things" and you would disagree. Reason: You can't mix up scoring methods (ref audiblizing, flip chart, LED scoreboards, "the boards") and expect "your customer" to just "get it"...LOL . . . |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 23, 2019 14:07:10 GMT -5
Dear AVP: There was no visual or audible scoring during the Manhattan Qualifier and even on some of the courts on Friday. Ask a ref? Well, that didn’t go so well. I “had to learn” the down ref, should there be one was responsible for that (should there be one). The request? Well, I was told, MUST be predicated with a “please” even though they announce the score, though it is “generally inaudible”. The customer is King? Well, maybe not in Manhattan (LOL). So, I pose the question: Can’t something be done? No money, etc.. OK, I’m on board… Well then, how about a creative small table (there are generally ones at most courts) with a flip chart (buy in bulk, get that volume discount) and small umbrella (ADD access to the players’ water if you REALLY want to take this over the top). Re-usable sign: Dynamic Scorekeeper Volunteer Needed in this seat. Score a game, under the shade and have a water or two. That won’t work? Well, whats your BETTER idea, because, IMHO, NOBODY, outside of the players and ref’s could give you the score in the outer courts at any random point in time. I didn’t do a scientific survey, but based on my sample size of about 20 requests, the results were “underwhelming”…. PLEASE, let us know the score…It REALLY makes the game more compelling (PLUS, I don’t want to look like an idiot when the ref says “Match Point!”. Uh, thanks ref. . . .:-( Jim, if you were asked, would you sit at a table and flip score? |
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Post by guest2 on Aug 23, 2019 14:10:30 GMT -5
Disagree: The Mantra "grow the game", which has been typed here at least 100 times over the past couple of years when discussing the future of the AVP, depends on sponsors. How do you get sponsors? Viewers. So who is the real customer? - Viewers on site + Viewers Online = marketing reach - Marketing Reach -> sponsors You can't have a Sponsor (which you mistakenly call "the Customer") without a market (Viewers) Viewers are then really the primary customer. Sponsors go where viewers are, therefore sponsors are the secondary customer. When the AVP/Refs don't respect what the viewer (primary customer) wants, that's cutting the tree down at its roots/ Those outer court refs are cutting down the tree one chop at a time every time they don't work with the primary customer. It's terrible customer service. It makes the on site viewers (primary customers) think they're not wanted or needed. Agreed, wholeheartedly. The problem with "customers" is, their overall experience is "virtually unmeasurable" and clearly so in a small population as an AVP event. What gets measured, gets done. Say you COULD measure customer satisfaction and subsequent behavior (fans leaving venue, "talking it up to others" and bringing more fans on board because of some "element" (eg. knowing the score, understanding who is the better players as they know the score and realize a 4 point comeback was done over the last 10 minutes). THEN you might change behavior. Now, I'm afraid, the refs are "meeting requirements" as we would say at my days at IBM. Definitely not "Consistently exceeding requirements". But, all employees fall into a process and work within. As the saying goes: "Systems are perfectly designed to get the results they get", with that in mind, the scoring, currently, is working PERFECTLY. There is a flawed system (unchecked, maybe unwritten) and it is playing itself out, each tournament at a time. NET: Nobody, virtually, knows the score at an AVP qualifier (OR Main Draw without flip charts and/or scoreboards). AND, by the way, you wouldn't have believed how many people didn't notice the flip chart (when one was present). Is it the "customers" fault they didn't notice the flip chart? Many might nod in agreement. Read "The Design of Everyday things" and you would disagree. Reason: You can't mix up scoring methods (ref audiblizing, flip chart, LED scoreboards, "the boards") and expect "your customer" to just "get it"...LOL . . . Just put scoreboard on the stand for qualifiers. If refs can do all the hand signals they do, they can certainly flip numbers |
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 23, 2019 14:21:24 GMT -5
Dear AVP: There was no visual or audible scoring during the Manhattan Qualifier and even on some of the courts on Friday. Ask a ref? Well, that didn’t go so well. I “had to learn” the down ref, should there be one was responsible for that (should there be one). The request? Well, I was told, MUST be predicated with a “please” even though they announce the score, though it is “generally inaudible”. The customer is King? Well, maybe not in Manhattan (LOL). So, I pose the question: Can’t something be done? No money, etc.. OK, I’m on board… Well then, how about a creative small table (there are generally ones at most courts) with a flip chart (buy in bulk, get that volume discount) and small umbrella (ADD access to the players’ water if you REALLY want to take this over the top). Re-usable sign: Dynamic Scorekeeper Volunteer Needed in this seat. Score a game, under the shade and have a water or two. That won’t work? Well, whats your BETTER idea, because, IMHO, NOBODY, outside of the players and ref’s could give you the score in the outer courts at any random point in time. I didn’t do a scientific survey, but based on my sample size of about 20 requests, the results were “underwhelming”…. PLEASE, let us know the score…It REALLY makes the game more compelling (PLUS, I don’t want to look like an idiot when the ref says “Match Point!”. Uh, thanks ref. . . .:-( Jim, if you were asked, would you sit at a table and flip score? actually, if there was an umbrella and I had access to water oh, certainly. |
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 23, 2019 14:27:32 GMT -5
Dear AVP: There was no visual or audible scoring during the Manhattan Qualifier and even on some of the courts on Friday. Ask a ref? Well, that didn’t go so well. I “had to learn” the down ref, should there be one was responsible for that (should there be one). The request? Well, I was told, MUST be predicated with a “please” even though they announce the score, though it is “generally inaudible”. The customer is King? Well, maybe not in Manhattan (LOL). So, I pose the question: Can’t something be done? No money, etc.. OK, I’m on board… Well then, how about a creative small table (there are generally ones at most courts) with a flip chart (buy in bulk, get that volume discount) and small umbrella (ADD access to the players’ water if you REALLY want to take this over the top). Re-usable sign: Dynamic Scorekeeper Volunteer Needed in this seat. Score a game, under the shade and have a water or two. That won’t work? Well, whats your BETTER idea, because, IMHO, NOBODY, outside of the players and ref’s could give you the score in the outer courts at any random point in time. I didn’t do a scientific survey, but based on my sample size of about 20 requests, the results were “underwhelming”…. PLEASE, let us know the score…It REALLY makes the game more compelling (PLUS, I don’t want to look like an idiot when the ref says “Match Point!”. Uh, thanks ref. . . .:-( Jim, if you were asked, would you sit at a table and flip score? actually, if there was an umbrella and I had access to water, certainly. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 23, 2019 14:42:23 GMT -5
Jim, if you were asked, would you sit at a table and flip score? actually, if there was an umbrella and I had access to water oh, certainly. Me too. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2019 14:57:15 GMT -5
there is both of those things. i kept score at a match at manhattan last year. you could just ask and most refs will be happy to let you keep score
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Post by dunninla3 on Aug 23, 2019 15:55:14 GMT -5
there is both of those things. i kept score at a match at manhattan last year. you could just ask and most refs will be happy to let you keep score sounds like we may have a solution... AVP has only to bring a flip card score thingy for each court. |
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 23, 2019 18:15:45 GMT -5
there is both of those things. i kept score at a match at manhattan last year. you could just ask and most refs will be happy to let you keep score I completely appreciate your logic, but having to ask refs and hoping there is a flip score there probably won't get the job done. Now, should they setup a table properly (and, by the way, Put a cardboard box below the flip chart so more people can see it) you could just ask the ref to announce before the game for a volunteer for the scoring station. Ref keeps the scorer honest and everybody knows the score...Again, this is ONE idea of many that you could brainstorm, but the problem remains: NOBODY KNOWS THE SCORE ! ! ! The other solution is for the ref to make the audible score, well, AUDIBLE! How did that work in Manhattan? Well, it certainly wasn't their "prime directive" and 80% of the time, WHILE TRYING TO HEAR THE SCORE, I could not hear the score, nor could people nearby, aka: "Did you hear that score". I'm telling you, the AVP does SO many things right it is hard to believe they let this fall by the wayside. |
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