FIVB prize winnings potentional 2015 vs. 2019

[dunninla3]

I was listening to a sandcast today, #3 I think, the one with Kelly Claes from late 2018.

Tri made a few comments about how much harder it is going to be to play FIVB in 2019 vs. 2015 when he was making his prior Olympics run.   Something about the payouts being a lot less per tournament.   Plus he mentioned the travel is just brutal, and going to overseas tournaments to chase Olympic Qualifying points is exhausting.

So I decided to have a look.   I was pretty surprised at how much better it was in the last Quad for both money and travel.

Bottom line is that if you were in 2015 and picked the highest 10 paying FIVB events, and did the same in 2019, and you won all 10, you would have made more than twice as much in 2015 vs. 2019.

Here is how I reached that conclusion:


2015 FIVB Calendar Year Season:

(5) Open: $11,000 1st, $2,000 9th Sochi, Xiamen, Rio, Fuzhou, Lucerne
(8) Majors: 4 Grand Slam, 3 Major Series, 1 World Series --$57,000 1st, 11,000 9th GS-Moscow, MS-Porec, MS-Stavanger, GS-St. Pete, MS-Gstaad, GS-Yokohama, WS-Long Beach, GS-Olsztyn
(1) World Champ $60,000 1st, $11,000 9th The Hague
(1) Tour Final: $100,000 1st, $5,000 9th, Ft. Lauderdale

Winning the 10 best paying Tournaments: $308,000 per player, with 3 tournaments in the USA, 7 International

2019 FIVB Calendar Year Season

(10) 4* 20,000 1st, $4,000 9th The Hague, Xiamen, Itapema, Jinjiang, Ostrava, Warsaw, Espinho, Tokyo, Moscow, Chetumal
(2) 5* $40,000 1st, $8,000 9th Vienna, Gstaad
(1) World Champ $60,000 1st, $11,000 9th, Hamburg
(1) Tour Final: $40,000 1st, $8,000 9th, Rome

Winning the 10 best paying Tournaments: $150,000 per player, all 10 tournaments outside USA

So there has been so much talk about how to make the AVP grow, how to increase earnings potential for the full time players, etc.   This makes me wonder why we're not asking the same questions about the FIVB.

[ajm]

Is this not just a direct effect of moving to the Star system? There are more events now with the addition of 1, 2, and 3 Stars, so it opens up the FIVB Tour to a lot more players than just the top 24 or 32 and gives them the opportunity to work their way up. But obviously this is controversial because it makes it harder for the top players.

I’d like to know how the total prize money across all events in 2019 compares with 2015. Is it just that the money is spread over more events and more players?

[dunninla3]

Aug 24, 2019 7:12:00 GMT -5 ajm said:

Is this not just a direct effect of moving to the Star system? There are more events now with the addition of 1, 2, and 3 Stars, so it opens up the FIVB Tour to a lot more players than just the top 24 or 32 and gives them the opportunity to work their way up. But obviously this is controversial because it makes it harder for the top players.

I’d like to know how the total prize money across all events in 2019 compares with 2015. Is it just that the money is spread over more events and more players?

I didn't have the spare time in the last Quad to really be a fan, so I hadn't paid attention.   It does appear that the during the last Quad the FIVB's lowest tier was the "Open", which in 2015 were (5).   In today's star system "Open" paid out at about current 3*.   In 2015 I don't see anything equivalent to 1* and 2*

As to the total payout, I'll have to do the calculations, but my expectation is that even if you were to add up the total payout of 2019 vs. the total payout of 2015, 2015 would still be more.

However, the point Tri made, and that I understand now looking at the numbers, the pro beach athlete playing FIVB events in 2019 has about half the earning potential vs. 2015, and travel outside the US is much, much more taxing on mind, body, and expenses.

Kinda looks like the FIVB peaked in terms of athlete earning potential in the last Quad in the way the AVP peaked in the 1992-1997 period.

It also makes me wonder why aging superstars like Phil, Ricardo, even bother to keep going... it can't be worth it financially, relative to the last Quad, at their stage in life with the 2019 FIVB payouts.   It does help me understand the timing of Larissa's retirement, Walkenhorst's lack of urgency in returning (or not returning at all ultimately), and a couple of the Brazilian women deciding to take a year and a half off to have a child.

[ajm]

I feel like they’ve discussed this on the Sandcast a couple times but it seems like the idea with the star system is that it brings the sport to more areas of the world and provides opportunities to more mid to lower level players hoping to break into the pro game. Sort of an effort to grow the game from the ground up rather than from the top down. Whether that’s proving successful is probably up for debate, but it does reduce the earning potential for the top players.

[haze]

Top players could make more money if they played more tourneys. Simple as that. They beach about lack of money but then complain about the travel and dont play in more than 10-15 tournaments a year.

Gibb for example has played 9 tournaments this year amd won $24k. In 2011, year before London, he played 14 tournaments and won 57k. He also finished with 5 top 7 finishes in 2011 compared to 2 this year.

I would like to see total money pooled as well, or comparison with other players.

[guest2]

Aug 24, 2019 11:28:43 GMT -5 dunninla3 said:

Aug 24, 2019 7:12:00 GMT -5 ajm said:

Is this not just a direct effect of moving to the Star system? There are more events now with the addition of 1, 2, and 3 Stars, so it opens up the FIVB Tour to a lot more players than just the top 24 or 32 and gives them the opportunity to work their way up. But obviously this is controversial because it makes it harder for the top players.

I’d like to know how the total prize money across all events in 2019 compares with 2015. Is it just that the money is spread over more events and more players?

I didn't have the spare time in the last Quad to really be a fan, so I hadn't paid attention.   It does appear that the during the last Quad the FIVB's lowest tier was the "Open", which in 2015 were (5).   In today's star system "Open" paid out at about current 3*.   In 2015 I don't see anything equivalent to 1* and 2*

As to the total payout, I'll have to do the calculations, but my expectation is that even if you were to add up the total payout of 2019 vs. the total payout of 2015, 2015 would still be more.

However, the point Tri made, and that I understand now looking at the numbers, the pro beach athlete playing FIVB events in 2019 has about half the earning potential vs. 2015, and travel outside the US is much, much more taxing on mind, body, and expenses.

Kinda looks like the FIVB peaked in terms of athlete earning potential in the last Quad in the way the AVP peaked in the 1992-1997 period.

It also makes me wonder why aging superstars like Phil, Ricardo, even bother to keep going... it can't be worth it financially, relative to the last Quad, at their stage in life with the 2019 FIVB payouts.   It does help me understand the timing of Larissa's retirement, Walkenhorst's lack of urgency in returning (or not returning at all ultimately), and a couple of the Brazilian women deciding to take a year and a half off to have a child.

Why would a player in Phil or Larissa's (who BTW made 100k the year she retired) position "bother" to keep going? Is that a joke? First the job itself. Playing beach volleyball for a living? The competition, the crowds, the work environment.

Second the travel. Hermosa, Gstaad, Tokyo, Sydney, KL, etc. All free, with hotels etc.

Third the money. A US player at Phil's level can easily clear 100k if they play all the events (Including AVP) Add sponsorships, clinics and other opportunities and lets estimate 150k.

Fourth the time off. 2-4 months a year depending, plus any time you have a bad day you get bonus days off. On most work days a little warm up, maybe 1-3 matches at an hour each, some video, then nothing else

What jobs are these players going to move into thats anywhere similar in benefits. Some may not value these things but for the majority

[dunninla3]

Aug 24, 2019 12:46:37 GMT -5 guest2 said:

Aug 24, 2019 11:28:43 GMT -5 dunninla3 said:

It also makes me wonder why aging superstars like Phil, Ricardo, even bother to keep going... it can't be worth it financially, 

Why would a player in Phil or Larissa's (who BTW made 100k the year she retired) position "bother" to keep going? Is that a joke? 

I didn't really pose that question well.   Here's what I mean --  After playing 15+ years, they are likely burnt out emotionally and mentally.   it is a GRIND.,, or it can become moreso the more years they've played.   You of course see that with Phil last year and this.   Given they are likely burnt out, and given the financially rewards are cut in half relative to the last quad... why not just retire and enjoy life?   Or if they have to continue to earn money to support their lifestyle, there are a lot of ways coaching can generate that amount of money without having to travel.

As to the concept that travelling is necessarily enjoyable -- In my 20s and 30s I took vacations 3-4 times a year that involved air travel.   After 10-15 years of travel both for pleasure and work, travel just got really OLD.   Sick of travelling.   The only thing I would get excited about now regarding travel is getting to stay in some place for 2-3 weeks or more, and getting to know the locals and hang out with locals.   Don't care anymore about bars, discos, sight seeing, etc.   I figure these guys feel the same way after 150+ cramped air flights and tour stops over their careers.

P.S.  I don't disagree with your general opinion, as I've read them, that players are entertainers and are not entitled to make a great living if their activities don't generate a profit for the Producers.