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Post by coug94 on Sept 8, 2019 17:50:38 GMT -5
It’s been a bit eye opening for me, seeing up close all of the positioning from a few clubs with wanting to get you to commit but they’re also working behind the scenes and making promises to other kids.
And then some seem butt hurt if a kid pursues another team option that is better for the kid and their future; like somehow you owe the club when they treat loyalty like a 1 way street.
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Post by burnoutbch89 on Sept 8, 2019 18:18:53 GMT -5
My son was a line judge during a tournament a few yrs. ago and a rival coach tried to recruit him to switch to his club, during the set. There doesn't seem to be any rules regarding this type of poaching. At the end of the season, his club awarded him a scholarship, for his last two years and locked him in.
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Post by bealzabubba on Sept 8, 2019 19:59:31 GMT -5
Not this year, but last, and the full discussion is here: volleytalk.proboards.com/post/1907643/threadI'm curious what the feeling on this scenario is - it happened in the 15/16s: Player tries out for two teams, discloses that to both. Club 1 makes offer (Friday), and Player defers accepting until after tryouts at Club 2 (Saturday). After tryouts, Club 2 makes an offer for its -1's, which is accepted; in turn, player declines Club 1's offer. Club 1 makes an offer to another player, which is accepted, as well. Club 2 verbally rescinds its offer 24 hours later, saying "sorry, we give dibs to returning players. oops. But... we'll offer you a spot on our rebuilding older team, if you'd like to play up, but it has been utterly devastated by movement." Club 1 is then contacted, and after discussing the matter with the "replacement" player, extends another offer, using a roster spot that really should go to another position. This will likely kill the play time of the second player, but he was given the option of moving to the -2's, or going into competition for PT (no representations were made at any point that being a starter was guaranteed). I understand that commitments are not binding from the player until 9-11, so there's an argument that the club has the right under the rules to withdraw, as well ("mutuality"). But, ethically, I think this is ... well, insert the invective of your choice, and honestly, I'm going to view Club 2 negatively from here on out. I get that the players are not responsible, so I'm specifically referring to Club 2, its director, and the coach in question. On "oops" - either your club has a policy of returning players getting preference, or it doesn't. So I view that as a lie. To me, the inference is that they found a better player, returning or not, and changed their mind. The only credit I give Club 2 is for admitting that the replacement team is rebuilding. But... Club 2 made a representation, on which the player relied to his detriment. That it worked out, eventually, is kind of irrelevant, because of the domino effect: the "replacement" player is impacted, Club 1's team is impacted (roster spot could be for a "project" middle that seems to show up at every tryout). Thoughts? Does age impact your evaluation - i.e. if these were 18's and not younger boys? Coda: Club 2 lied through its teeth on the "returning players get dibs" issue. They *lost* a ton of players, and added a ton of players from another club (mass moves on both sides). My son's team played both Club 2 teams last year - beat them handily, every single time (Our boys knew the story). I will always look sideways at Club 2.
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Post by westcoastbias on Sept 10, 2019 14:26:01 GMT -5
There was some 11th hour flip-flopping going on in our area. Funny how some of these kids and their parents get off on the attention that comes with playing the field this time of year, especially in the 15s/14s/13s divisions...
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Post by bealzabubba on Sept 10, 2019 14:31:49 GMT -5
One parent of a tweener (i.e. an 8th grade exception) told me he was cold-called by a club after Friday tryouts. As in around 11 pm.
I have my doubts (how'd they get his number?), but he'd had no contact with that club at any time before.
That kid tried out for three good clubs, and all offered him -1s. He stayed "home," if you will, and one reason was dad really didn't like the recruiting actions.
So taking the high road pays off, at least at times.
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Post by westcoastbias on Sept 10, 2019 15:01:27 GMT -5
One parent of a tweener (i.e. an 8th grade exception) told me he was cold-called by a club after Friday tryouts. As in around 11 pm. I have my doubts (how'd they get his number?), but he'd had no contact with that club at any time before. That kid tried out for three good clubs, and all offered him -1s. He stayed "home," if you will, and one reason was dad really didn't like the recruiting actions. So taking the high road pays off, at least at times. We've never played one club off of another and courted those "recruiting actions" and I still don't understand the appeal of it. We could go that route (especially this year), but had the necessary conversations shortly after JOs and made the early choice that looked like the best overall situation based on combination of key factors including: coach, club, PT, loyalty, teammates/parents, and potential for team success. Looks like another fun season is in store for us. Fortunately, the high road has continued to pay off - onward & upward...
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Post by bealzabubba on Sept 10, 2019 16:24:38 GMT -5
I stated this poorly: yes, he tried out at three clubs (all told), but I didn't get the impression they were looking to do so Friday night. The Fri tryouts for "his" team were... not good, in looks anyway. He was offered Friday night, and dad told the club "I need to look around."
I didn't get the impression they were playing anyone club off the other - parents were trying to find a "fit" (culture / players) for a kid that's only played one spring season (16's, as a 14 - with players now split between 16s/17s this year), but has a lot of promise. His older brother played our club for a few years (with my son), so the SS plus that = "home."
Culture ended up being the deciding thing over other factors - One very, very good club was close to Dad's job, so they tried it on Saturday morning, and didn't like the vibe. The cold call club was... icky, because of the cold call, but made a very strong (and good) impression otherwise - just wasn't the right fit for this kid.
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Post by teamjess on Sept 10, 2019 17:59:13 GMT -5
When you guys say "offer" do you mean "give a scholarship" offer or just a spot on the 1's team or any team?? What does "taking the high road" mean? I also never even realized there was a "committment day" with boys. I knew there was with girls but always felt the boys to be far more casual. My experience is probably limited but comes from both the player and coach perspective.
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Post by bealzabubba on Sept 11, 2019 10:15:33 GMT -5
When you guys say "offer" do you mean "give a scholarship" offer or just a spot on the 1's team or any team?? What does "taking the high road" mean? I also never even realized there was a "committment day" with boys. I knew there was with girls but always felt the boys to be far more casual. My experience is probably limited but comes from both the player and coach perspective. Offer: a roster spot on any particular team, and I think we're mostly talking about -1s. Scholarships are a whole different issue, and one I've never actually seen. Commitment Day: the Tuesday after tryouts start. As part of your club signup for the season, the boys (well, parents) sign a letter of commitment to the club/team, which agrees to sanctions if they try to leave. During tryout weekend, Offers are supposed to bind the club if accepted, locking in a roster spot for Commitment Day. BUT the boys can change their mind until they sign the commitment. There can be (and is!) drama for the players if one of their buddies changes his mind during tryout weekend, particularly if the team wants to be competitive, and it's a key player, and can start a domino effect. In fairness, if a kid accepts believing he's going to play with X, Y, and Z, who suddenly are elsewhere - he should have that option. " Taking the high road" is difficult to describe definitively, and has differing meanings depending upon whether you're talking about club or player (to me). Club: actively recruiting a player during the prior season, or actively trying to get a kid to break his commitment during tryout weekend are NOT "taking the highroad." Cold calling a player who's never been to your club to recruit him is not taking the highroad, IMO, particularly during tryout weekend. Talking to a kid who comes to your clinic about trying out? Fine. Telling a kid who comes to your clinic - come tryout, I'll guarantee you -1s / we're going to get a bid, your old club sucks? Not cool. Player: accepting a roster spot and then trying out at a different club to try to get on a better team (-1s only, realistically - if the kid/parent thinks he's -1s, he's not going to accept a -2s offer); trying out at multiple clubs, and then playing the offers against each other to get on a better/preferred team at a given club ("if you don't put me on your X-1s instead of the Y-1s you offered me, I leave"). This seems to be a bigger concern with 13s/14s/15s, because if a Club or Player doesn't act that way, it can impact a lot of boys. E.G. if one player moves, his buddies or carpool group may also move, denuding a team. If you see a mass move (3+ good/excellent players go from one team to another or entire teams moving clubs), it may look hinky, but in every situation I've personally seen - it hasn't been [carpool, friend group, unhappiness with coaching, money, desire to play with school buddies or for a particular coach, desire to have a team where everyone can play competitively (13s/14s!) etc.], but outsiders can't/won't know - and if the club already has a somewhat negative rep, folks will infer bad behavior when it's simply not there.
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Post by westcoastbias on Sept 11, 2019 13:09:36 GMT -5
When you guys say "offer" do you mean "give a scholarship" offer or just a spot on the 1's team or any team?? What does "taking the high road" mean? I also never even realized there was a "committment day" with boys. I knew there was with girls but always felt the boys to be far more casual. My experience is probably limited but comes from both the player and coach perspective. The tryout weekend and commitment day is very real and binding for the boys (I just sent in my son's). While the drama may not be as obvious or visible as the girls, boys volleyball is played at a much higher level by far fewer players, so the recruitment and commitment of top players is absolutely critical for success.
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Post by teamjess on Sept 11, 2019 17:03:20 GMT -5
When you guys say "offer" do you mean "give a scholarship" offer or just a spot on the 1's team or any team?? What does "taking the high road" mean? I also never even realized there was a "committment day" with boys. I knew there was with girls but always felt the boys to be far more casual. My experience is probably limited but comes from both the player and coach perspective. The tryout weekend and commitment day is very real and binding for the boys (I just sent in my son's). While the drama may not be as obvious or visible as the girls, boys volleyball is played at a much higher level by far fewer players, so the recruitment and commitment of top players is absolutely critical for success. Thank you both for the information. I do know how important it is to play for the best club you can, while still balancing playtime. We had a very different experience when my son tried out for a top club and made the decision to switch from the tiny club he had been playing for (but that most of his high school teammates and close friends played for). Both clubs let him attend both practices for the first week while he decided. No pressure - lots of kindness and support. This just raises my respect - which was already very high - for those involved with the club my son ended up playing for. Seriously the best decision ever for so many reasons.
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