|
Post by badgerbreath on Oct 5, 2019 10:52:04 GMT -5
It's easy peasy to say there are politics everywhere, and it can lead to a kind of nihilism. But politics doesn't play the same role everywhere.
I think when you are competing against people with existing personal relationships that are costly to break, it's hard to break into a group - especially if breaking in is only possible in these small windows of time. Politics matters in these instances.
In other walks of life, where personal connections are less involved or evident, our less important, you don't see play as large a role. I have been on two job searches recently where somebody with connections was considered, and they were rejected because their record was not anyway on a par with the remaining 40-200 candidates.
|
|
|
Post by dokterrudi on Oct 5, 2019 11:28:00 GMT -5
Yep. In my experience the club knew who was making what team before tryouts even started. And most of the players had an idea beforehand. And money helps...sad, but true. This is the part I hated. Ghost tryouts.
|
|
|
Post by dokterrudi on Oct 5, 2019 11:36:34 GMT -5
Volleyball is a very small world...especially locally. In my area you would be tagged as a "club shopper". Trying out at multiple clubs every year isn't ideal because it sends a message that you aren't committed to your team. Chemistry on the court is huge and constant changes as a team grows are distracting. You have to be a stud to be able to force them to make changes. Do worry about it so much. If you are as good as you say you are, coaches will find you. No matter what club you play for. where I live my D usually tried out for 3 clubs. You have to here in our area. Summer open gyms is where clubs start choosing players, very important to attend.
|
|
|
Post by stanfordvb on Oct 7, 2019 7:22:19 GMT -5
Club volleyball isn't club volleyball without politics. And when a club coach is a highschool coach, watch out because they will say they don't connect the two until the day they die, but if you don't go to the highschool of their wanting, or you miss a club / tournament they will take it out on you during club/ highschool season.
Most prominent example I've seen is assumption high school / kiva volleyball club in Louisville, ky. Most successful highschool team in the country for the last couple years, club director of kiva is head coach of assumption. The only players I've seen on the 18-1s team at kiva that didn't go to assumption were Paige hammons (OH at Florida) setter for wku, and a OH for Georgia tech. If you don't go to the hs, and you arent the stud of the team, you will magically drop down from the top team after freshman year of hs
|
|
aldad
High School
Posts: 7
|
Post by aldad on Oct 7, 2019 8:26:55 GMT -5
In my area, 2 of the 3 local clubs are ran by the coaches of strong high school teams. Its also complicated by the states 50/50 rule that only allows 3 girls from any high school team to be on a club team. It makes for interesting politics for sure.
|
|
cacb
High School
Posts: 13
|
Post by cacb on Oct 7, 2019 9:00:28 GMT -5
Volleyball is a very small world...especially locally. In my area you would be tagged as a "club shopper". Trying out at multiple clubs every year isn't ideal because it sends a message that you aren't committed to your team. Chemistry on the court is huge and constant changes as a team grows are distracting. You have to be a stud to be able to force them to make changes. Do worry about it so much. If you are as good as you say you are, coaches will find you. No matter what club you play for. where I live my D usually tried out for 3 clubs. You have to here in our area. Summer open gyms is where clubs start choosing players, very important to attend. Summer open gyms, specialty camps, etc. Many coaches and club personnel not only want to see your skill set, but also want to evaluate your team play and coachability. You could be the best OH in the region but if you have a difficult personality and are not listening to the coaches, you will NEVER make their club. Hard lessons to learn.
|
|
|
Post by volleyball303 on Oct 7, 2019 9:22:13 GMT -5
In my area, 2 of the 3 local clubs are ran by the coaches of strong high school teams. Its also complicated by the states 50/50 rule that only allows 3 girls from any high school team to be on a club team. It makes for interesting politics for sure. What is the point of that rule and how can they actually enforce it? What about a player that plays 16’s but sometimes might play up on the 17’s team. Does the rule just applied to your designated team?
|
|
aldad
High School
Posts: 7
|
Post by aldad on Oct 7, 2019 10:36:23 GMT -5
I have never heard an explanation that makes sense but the basic concept is to try to limit the powerhouse programs that happen to have ties to a club team from continually dominating the smaller schools by having the girls play together all year. Its team specific for the rule. Last year my daughter was on varsity at her high school so they were able to have 3 JV players on her team as well. The enforcement is loss of eligibility for high school if I understand correctly. There are other odd rules that effect only private schools as well regarding their classification. 1A-7A. Each student is counted as 1.35 students as compared to public schools so they generally play up a level. To add to that if they win at a high level for 3 years they bump up another. We have 4a schools playing at 6a and 7a.
|
|
|
Post by jcvball22 on Oct 7, 2019 10:43:14 GMT -5
where I live my D usually tried out for 3 clubs. You have to here in our area. Summer open gyms is where clubs start choosing players, very important to attend. Summer open gyms, specialty camps, etc. Many coaches and club personnel not only want to see your skill set, but also want to evaluate your team play and coachability. You could be the best OH in the region but if you have a difficult personality and are not listening to the coaches, you will NEVER make their club. Hard lessons to learn. And, honestly, it's better for all involved to make informed decisions: do the kids/parents like the coaching style of the coach they may play for,? what is the practice environment like?, is the kid coachable?, how does the group work together/interact with each other?, how are the parents?, etc. Our region just finished tryouts for our 11s-14s age groups. We held clinics for months to get to know the kids, so their team/year didn't come down to a 1.5 hour tryout on one day. Lots of time and evaluation goes into selecting teams. Also, for our region, practices begin November 1 for the younger ages, and the age group I coach has their first regional tournament less than 3 weeks later (thanks a lot SCVA!). That is not a lot of time to teach 10, 11, and 12 years olds rotations, positions, skills, and game play. So we started teaching some of it during clinics to see who could handle it.
|
|
|
Post by Not Me on Oct 7, 2019 10:50:58 GMT -5
Easy answer. Yes
|
|
|
Post by rosey on Oct 8, 2019 10:11:03 GMT -5
I didnt mean it to sound like i was complaining because i always enjoy whatever team i am on. i am not disloyal to my team but in my age a lot of people are quitting volleyball each year and you have to go where theres enough people to make a team. i just think its kinda funny.
|
|
|
Post by somethinbruin on Oct 10, 2019 0:15:18 GMT -5
It's easy peasy to say there are politics everywhere, and it can lead to a kind of nihilism. But politics doesn't play the same role everywhere. I think when you are competing against people with existing personal relationships that are costly to break, it's hard to break into a group - especially if breaking in is only possible in these small windows of time. Politics matters in these instances. In other walks of life, where personal connections are less involved or evident, our less important, you don't see play as large a role. I have been on two job searches recently where somebody with connections was considered, and they were rejected because their record was not anyway on a par with the remaining 40-200 candidates. So much of this is exactly my take on the situation. What the people who don't make the team see as politics, the people who did make the team might see as loyalty. When you've got two players of equal or near equal ability, and one has played with you in previous years and one is a total unknown, who are you more likely to go with? Past a certain point (I would say about the 13s age level), if you're a newbie to the club you've got to really come into tryouts and blow everybody away to unseat someone who's been in the program for a few years and is a known quantity. All things being equal, I'm going with the kid we know and already had a good experience with. We've already invested our time into them, and they've invested time and money in us. It's also a numbers game in ways that many players don't realize. I once had a high school coach e-mail me to ask why one of his players, who he called his stud OH, hadn't made any of our club teams. My response to him basically boiled down to this: Player X's disappointment is understandable, but when you step back and look at the situation, it might make some sense. Our club is fielding 3 teams at the 16s level this year. That means that we need about 9 outside hitters, give or take, plus a few right side hitters who can also set in a pinch. This OH didn't score highly in the setting portion, so we didn't consider her for a RS position. That means she was competing with about 75 other athletes for 9 roster spots. But all three hitters from our top team came back from the previous year, and given our commitment to player development/loyalty all three of those athletes were offered spots on teams (two on the top team, one on the #2 team). So now 72 athletes are competing for 6 spots (and just 1 spot on the top team). At a certain point it just becomes a numbers game. We've got one or two tryouts to cull a huge number of athletes down to our roster size. It can be hard to get noticed, and she didn't flash for us at the tryout. She fell into that 90% of OHs who tried out who we couldn't offer spots to. In this case, I think the athlete's disappointment resulted in part from unrealistic expectations. The outside hitters on our top 16s team that year were all over 6' and jumped out of the gym. The OHs on teams #2 and #3 were all at least 5'10" if I recall correctly. This kid was 5'7" or 5'8" with average ups. She was a fine player at her very small high school, but she didn't stand out in a gym with a deeper talent pool. If you're new to club volleyball, these broader contexts aren't always evident, so it probably does seem terribly political when in fact it might not be. Finally, the OP states that she clearly was better than the other defensive players at the tryout, but here's where that loyalty comes into play. Maybe the DS she was competing against has been with the club a few years and they know her abilities. So if that DS has a bad tryout, they're more likely to overlook it because they know what that athlete can do. I had a right side hitter who played in our club for six years who sucked at every single tryout because she worked herself into a panic that she wouldn't make the team. But I'd worked with her at camps before she first tried out so I took her as a 13 year old. The kid was a stud who ended up being a really clutch player (and got a full ride at a big school), but for some reason tryouts daunted her. If you were an athlete trying out against her, I can see how you would be indignant that she was chosen over you. But she was a kid already in our system and we knew what she could do, despite her tendency to get the yips at tryouts.
|
|
|
Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Oct 10, 2019 10:11:37 GMT -5
Wait. You had 75 players for a pin position trying out and you were only fielding 3 teams? As a potential for growing a business you may have missed a great opportunity for expansion.
I mean that is what club Vball is ultimately, a business.
|
|
|
Post by crug68 on Oct 10, 2019 13:23:08 GMT -5
I think there is something to be said about a club showing loyalty to the players that they developed. My only gripe was going to the club where the 1s team was already selected and it wasn't a true tryout. After being around the game for awhile, I get the politics and loyalty aspect clubs can have to the girls that they "know" and I respect it. I just wished that clubs were more honest about what the girls were trying out for. If I would have known the 1s team was full, we would not have tried out there since our goal was to be on a 1s team.
|
|
|
Post by jcvball22 on Oct 10, 2019 13:37:18 GMT -5
Wait. You had 75 players for a pin position trying out and you were only fielding 3 teams? As a potential for growing a business you may have missed a great opportunity for expansion. I mean that is what club Vball is ultimately, a business. You can only grow to the size of the resources you have available. Gym space is at a premium. You can only fit so many teams in, only have so many coaches, etc.
|
|