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Post by eazy on Oct 10, 2019 14:17:32 GMT -5
I think there is something to be said about a club showing loyalty to the players that they developed. My only gripe was going to the club where the 1s team was already selected and it wasn't a true tryout. After being around the game for awhile, I get the politics and loyalty aspect clubs can have to the girls that they "know" and I respect it. I just wished that clubs were more honest about what the girls were trying out for. If I would have known the 1s team was full, we would not have tried out there since our goal was to be on a 1s team. Was it full, or is that just an assumption? Maybe the same 10 players from last year's 1s team were the 10 best players again. If your goal is to be on a 1s team, buts a bad sign for development. There are plenty of 2s teams that are better than 1s team. The goal should be something more than being able to say that you were on the highest team at X club.
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Post by austintatious on Oct 10, 2019 14:18:31 GMT -5
Depends. If your daughter diesn't start it is because she isn't good enough. If my daughter doesn't start it is politics. Pure and simple.
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Oct 10, 2019 15:33:14 GMT -5
Wait. You had 75 players for a pin position trying out and you were only fielding 3 teams? As a potential for growing a business you may have missed a great opportunity for expansion. I mean that is what club Vball is ultimately, a business. You can only grow to the size of the resources you have available. Gym space is at a premium. You can only fit so many teams in, only have so many coaches, etc. More players = more ability to access available resources. I know there’s no way to get 25 teams for those 75 hitters but at the same time growth and expansion must be in the plan. Long term.
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Post by jcvball22 on Oct 10, 2019 17:04:47 GMT -5
You can only grow to the size of the resources you have available. Gym space is at a premium. You can only fit so many teams in, only have so many coaches, etc. More players = more ability to access available resources. I know there’s no way to get 25 teams for those 75 hitters but at the same time growth and expansion must be in the plan. Long term. But there have to be resources, financial ability to back those resources, quality coaches to staff those teams, and courts/buildings available to put teams. It's illogical to think that kind of expansion is likely to happen in a lot of places. I know it couldn't happen where I coach.
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Post by stevehorn on Oct 10, 2019 17:38:27 GMT -5
You can only grow to the size of the resources you have available. Gym space is at a premium. You can only fit so many teams in, only have so many coaches, etc. More players = more ability to access available resources. I know there’s no way to get 25 teams for those 75 hitters but at the same time growth and expansion must be in the plan. Long term.
Particularly at the larger or more well known clubs, you have a lot of girls trying out that have no chance of making the teams. It takes awhile for parents to accept a realistic evaluation of their daughter's skills. Also particularly at the younger ages, everyone thinks they are a hitter. While 75 tried out for pins, I wouldn't be surprised if they struggled to get 10 trying out for L/DS.
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Post by crug68 on Oct 11, 2019 12:16:57 GMT -5
I think there is something to be said about a club showing loyalty to the players that they developed. My only gripe was going to the club where the 1s team was already selected and it wasn't a true tryout. After being around the game for awhile, I get the politics and loyalty aspect clubs can have to the girls that they "know" and I respect it. I just wished that clubs were more honest about what the girls were trying out for. If I would have known the 1s team was full, we would not have tried out there since our goal was to be on a 1s team. Was it full, or is that just an assumption? Maybe the same 10 players from last year's 1s team were the 10 best players again. If your goal is to be on a 1s team, buts a bad sign for development. There are plenty of 2s teams that are better than 1s team. The goal should be something more than being able to say that you were on the highest team at X club. They just promoted their 1s team from the year before. On the 2nd night of tryouts, they pulled the previous year's team to another court and never looked back. She is in a great place now. She has put in the work and she is very happy with the club she is in. We finished our 17s season with a trip to Indy, and I doubt that she will tryout for any other place than where she is at. The club that had their 1s team selected before tryouts (in my example) for her 16s year, in hindsight, would have been a disaster for her. She was asked to be on the 2s team that year, and with everyone that left, they only had 1 team for 17s last year. That said, my daughter made it to the best club in Ga on a reference. She was invited to participate in some drop in practices and she was able to start a relationship with the club. If we had made an investment in the other club before 16's tryouts, then I think it may have made a difference. So I guess the moral of the story is: if you want to have a chance to make the top team, the club needs to know you before tryouts. There just isn't enough time for the coaches to evaluate the girls during the 2 hour session and callback. Since the commitment is binding, they need to get it right and they will go with who they know.
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Post by somethinbruin on Oct 12, 2019 1:25:59 GMT -5
You can only grow to the size of the resources you have available. Gym space is at a premium. You can only fit so many teams in, only have so many coaches, etc. More players = more ability to access available resources. I know there’s no way to get 25 teams for those 75 hitters but at the same time growth and expansion must be in the plan. Long term. There are a lot of assumptions about what all clubs want to be wrapped up in your two posts on this. Growth and expansion do not have to be in every club's long-term plan. Some of us are just looking for sustainability. Both of the clubs that I've worked with long-term have sought that balance, where they've got the right number of teams and the right number of courts to be able to offer the highest-quality experience to the players. The one time I worked with a club that was hell-bent on becoming the biggest club in human history, it was an unmitigated disaster: They had to field way too many teams to finance the building they (over)built. The talent on the lower teams was abysmal. It was hard to find qualified coaches to coach the #6 14s team. We had to pack teams onto shared practice courts, which isn't always ideal. Older teams practiced from 9-11 p.m. Lower teams only got two, 90 minute practices per week. All in the name of "building" the club and paying for the facility. It was a nightmare. Nobody was happy--players, parents, or coaches. I would rather work with a club that operates within its constraints. But then again, neither of the clubs I've worked with long-term are their director's primary source of income. Nobody's getting rich at those clubs, and the directors don't see that as the point. Yes, they want to make some money off of it in the end, but the point isn't to be constantly pushing to make more and more money, it's to run a high-quality club. In the instance I referenced in my example, the club was 100% constrained by the things jcvball22 pointed out. We knew exactly how much court time we had each year, since we didn't have our own volleyball specific facility. We rented from the local university and a few of the schools. The availability of courts/gym time dictated the number of teams we could field. You would probably argue that we should have been looking for ways to get into our own facility, but none of the directors wanted to make club volleyball their full time job. And none of the directors had the sort of independent wealth or the desire to suck up to a wealthy investor in order to get a facility built. We were content being what we were, and it wasn't like we were a small club. We usually had between 20-22 teams depending on the depth of the talent. But adding any more teams just wasn't possible because we had limited court availability. Plus, while we may have had enough pin hitters to field two more teams, that doesn't mean we had quality setters to pair them up with. There definitely wasn't the depth of talent at the tryout to warrant adding additional teams, in my opinion.
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Post by crug68 on Oct 22, 2019 16:06:27 GMT -5
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Post by maɡˈnōlēə on Nov 7, 2019 8:39:01 GMT -5
I think there is something to be said about a club showing loyalty to the players that they developed. My only gripe was going to the club where the 1s team was already selected and it wasn't a true tryout. After being around the game for awhile, I get the politics and loyalty aspect clubs can have to the girls that they "know" and I respect it. I just wished that clubs were more honest about what the girls were trying out for. If I would have known the 1s team was full, we would not have tried out there since our goal was to be on a 1s team. Was it full, or is that just an assumption? Maybe the same 10 players from last year's 1s team were the 10 best players again. If your goal is to be on a 1s team, buts a bad sign for development. There are plenty of 2s teams that are better than 1s team. The goal should be something more than being able to say that you were on the highest team at X club. A good friend of mine in GA is going through a big debate about this with her kid. Switching late in the game is a crap shoot but when club dynamics do not help a person grow and bad dynamics are allowed to play it's A tough call to stay. In her daughter's case she really loved the club she left but she did not feel like she belonged. Loving something is not the same as feeling like family. Since the kid walked from her old place she has the option of taking a spot on the highest team at one club or on the only 18's team at a far less competitive club but where she would get good attention to help her finish developing in her position. This poor kid is just a wreck over the whole thing. Growing up sucks.
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Post by jammaster on Nov 8, 2019 13:57:11 GMT -5
Was it full, or is that just an assumption? Maybe the same 10 players from last year's 1s team were the 10 best players again. If your goal is to be on a 1s team, buts a bad sign for development. There are plenty of 2s teams that are better than 1s team. The goal should be something more than being able to say that you were on the highest team at X club. They just promoted their 1s team from the year before. On the 2nd night of tryouts, they pulled the previous year's team to another court and never looked back. She is in a great place now. She has put in the work and she is very happy with the club she is in. We finished our 17s season with a trip to Indy, and I doubt that she will tryout for any other place than where she is at. The club that had their 1s team selected before tryouts (in my example) for her 16s year, in hindsight, would have been a disaster for her. She was asked to be on the 2s team that year, and with everyone that left, they only had 1 team for 17s last year. That said, my daughter made it to the best club in Ga on a reference. She was invited to participate in some drop in practices and she was able to start a relationship with the club. If we had made an investment in the other club before 16's tryouts, then I think it may have made a difference. So I guess the moral of the story is: if you want to have a chance to make the top team, the club needs to know you before tryouts. There just isn't enough time for the coaches to evaluate the girls during the 2 hour session and callback. Since the commitment is binding, they need to get it right and they will go with who they know. This is absolutely the right way to look at it. If you want to put your kid on a 1s team at a top club, unless your kid is an uber stud, you don't just show up for tryouts and expect to get the spot. You need more than a couple of hours playing with the club to earn the respect of the players and coaches. 2 hours of chaos is not enough for them to understand who your kid is. Most clubs have inexpensive pre tryout clinics. That is where you earn your spot if you are an outsider...not the tryout.
Show up to every one. Be there early. Focus and be coachable. Get along with other potential teammates. Use every rep.
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Post by eazy on Nov 8, 2019 14:07:02 GMT -5
They just promoted their 1s team from the year before. On the 2nd night of tryouts, they pulled the previous year's team to another court and never looked back. She is in a great place now. She has put in the work and she is very happy with the club she is in. We finished our 17s season with a trip to Indy, and I doubt that she will tryout for any other place than where she is at. The club that had their 1s team selected before tryouts (in my example) for her 16s year, in hindsight, would have been a disaster for her. She was asked to be on the 2s team that year, and with everyone that left, they only had 1 team for 17s last year. That said, my daughter made it to the best club in Ga on a reference. She was invited to participate in some drop in practices and she was able to start a relationship with the club. If we had made an investment in the other club before 16's tryouts, then I think it may have made a difference. So I guess the moral of the story is: if you want to have a chance to make the top team, the club needs to know you before tryouts. There just isn't enough time for the coaches to evaluate the girls during the 2 hour session and callback. Since the commitment is binding, they need to get it right and they will go with who they know. This is absolutely the right way to look at it. If you want to put your kid on a 1s team at a top club, unless your kid is an uber stud, you don't just show up for tryouts and expect to get the spot. You need more than a couple of hours playing with the club to earn the respect of the players and coaches. 2 hours of chaos is not enough for them to understand who your kid is. Most clubs have inexpensive pre tryout clinics. That is where you earn your spot if you are an outsider...not the tryout.
Show up to every one. Be there early. Focus and be coachable. Get along with other potential teammates. Use every rep.
Unless your kid is an "uber-stud" they probably shouldn't be on a 1s team at a top club.. You should not have to spend money going to their camps to get noticed if you deserve to be on their 1s team. If you're just hoping for a spot on the bottom team, then it would make sense to go to as much as possible in case you have a less than stellar try-out. But anyone that is capable of being on a top team should not be concerned about being cut. If that happens and politics ($$$) is more important than skill, then it's not the type of club you should want to play for anyways.
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Post by jammaster on Nov 8, 2019 16:48:13 GMT -5
This is absolutely the right way to look at it. If you want to put your kid on a 1s team at a top club, unless your kid is an uber stud, you don't just show up for tryouts and expect to get the spot. You need more than a couple of hours playing with the club to earn the respect of the players and coaches. 2 hours of chaos is not enough for them to understand who your kid is. Most clubs have inexpensive pre tryout clinics. That is where you earn your spot if you are an outsider...not the tryout.
Show up to every one. Be there early. Focus and be coachable. Get along with other potential teammates. Use every rep.
Unless your kid is an "uber-stud" they probably shouldn't be on a 1s team at a top club.. You should not have to spend money going to their camps to get noticed if you deserve to be on their 1s team. If you're just hoping for a spot on the bottom team, then it would make sense to go to as much as possible in case you have a less than stellar try-out. But anyone that is capable of being on a top team should not be concerned about being cut. If that happens and politics ($$$) is more important than skill, then it's not the type of club you should want to play for anyways. My kid one of the "in" kids that the program director is building his 1s team around and I tell her the same thing. Go to every PTC, be the role model for how the team is going to practice, engage new players to see what they bring, focus and be coachable. The program director trusts her to help build the best team they can. The PTCs are just as much for team leaders as they are for less advanced players to get some reps.
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Post by crug68 on Nov 10, 2019 10:58:44 GMT -5
Was it full, or is that just an assumption? Maybe the same 10 players from last year's 1s team were the 10 best players again. If your goal is to be on a 1s team, buts a bad sign for development. There are plenty of 2s teams that are better than 1s team. The goal should be something more than being able to say that you were on the highest team at X club. A good friend of mine in GA is going through a big debate about this with her kid. Switching late in the game is a crap shoot but when club dynamics do not help a person grow and bad dynamics are allowed to play it's A tough call to stay. In her daughter's case she really loved the club she left but she did not feel like she belonged. Loving something is not the same as feeling like family. Since the kid walked from her old place she has the option of taking a spot on the highest team at one club or on the only 18's team at a far less competitive club but where she would get good attention to help her finish developing in her position. This poor kid is just a wreck over the whole thing. Growing up sucks. Now that tryouts are over in Ga, I hope that it worked out for your friend. My daughter's team added 3 new players, but only 1 came from an unaffiliated club. Politics were crazy at the 16s level (from what I hear). It looked to me that the club chose to emphasize loyalty this year which I think is probably the right thing to do. I guess you can call loyalty a form of politics, and if so, then YES there should be politics in every club.
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Post by eazy on Nov 10, 2019 11:46:22 GMT -5
A good friend of mine in GA is going through a big debate about this with her kid. Switching late in the game is a crap shoot but when club dynamics do not help a person grow and bad dynamics are allowed to play it's A tough call to stay. In her daughter's case she really loved the club she left but she did not feel like she belonged. Loving something is not the same as feeling like family. Since the kid walked from her old place she has the option of taking a spot on the highest team at one club or on the only 18's team at a far less competitive club but where she would get good attention to help her finish developing in her position. This poor kid is just a wreck over the whole thing. Growing up sucks. Now that tryouts are over in Ga, I hope that it worked out for your friend. My daughter's team added 3 new players, but only 1 came from an unaffiliated club. Politics were crazy at the 16s level (from what I hear). It looked to me that the club chose to emphasize loyalty this year which I think is probably the right thing to do. I guess you can call loyalty a form of politics, and if so, then YES there should be politics in every club. I would hope that loyalty is used only as a tie-breaker if all other things end up even. If you have a better player with a better attitude and it's their first time switching clubs, I would take them over a returning kids who doesn't have the other stuff. If you have a better player with a history of switching clubs vs an almost as good player who has been with you for years, then use loyalty as the tiebreaker.
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Post by dokterrudi on Nov 10, 2019 14:11:49 GMT -5
They just promoted their 1s team from the year before. On the 2nd night of tryouts, they pulled the previous year's team to another court and never looked back. She is in a great place now. She has put in the work and she is very happy with the club she is in. We finished our 17s season with a trip to Indy, and I doubt that she will tryout for any other place than where she is at. The club that had their 1s team selected before tryouts (in my example) for her 16s year, in hindsight, would have been a disaster for her. She was asked to be on the 2s team that year, and with everyone that left, they only had 1 team for 17s last year. That said, my daughter made it to the best club in Ga on a reference. She was invited to participate in some drop in practices and she was able to start a relationship with the club. If we had made an investment in the other club before 16's tryouts, then I think it may have made a difference. So I guess the moral of the story is: if you want to have a chance to make the top team, the club needs to know you before tryouts. There just isn't enough time for the coaches to evaluate the girls during the 2 hour session and callback. Since the commitment is binding, they need to get it right and they will go with who they know. This is absolutely the right way to look at it. If you want to put your kid on a 1s team at a top club, unless your kid is an uber stud, you don't just show up for tryouts and expect to get the spot. You need more than a couple of hours playing with the club to earn the respect of the players and coaches. 2 hours of chaos is not enough for them to understand who your kid is. Most clubs have inexpensive pre tryout clinics. That is where you earn your spot if you are an outsider...not the tryout.
Show up to every one. Be there early. Focus and be coachable. Get along with other potential teammates. Use every rep.
Good eavesdropping skills a must.🙃
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