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Post by guest2 on Oct 21, 2019 7:12:07 GMT -5
BVB has an article up about Alison and it occurred to me what a great career he has already had. The eye test tells us that Phil is a much better player, but in terms of actual accomplishments, I think Alison has had the best career of any active men's player other than Ricardo, who is barely active these days.
Comparing Alison to Phil:
Olympics: Alison Gold + Silver Phil Gold
World Championships Alison Gold, Gold, Silver, 4th Phil Gold, Bronze
Wins Alison 28 Phil 38
Alison has had massively better partners (Bruno at his peak, Emmanuel v Todd/Sean/Nick) but I was still surprised how close their achievements are given that Phil is better at pretty much every VB skill.
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Post by bombsaway on Oct 21, 2019 10:02:23 GMT -5
really like this analysis. Only other obvious thing to mention would be the attitude difference between the two. Alison seems ready and willing to lead a team (Alvaro, somewhat with Bruno) and also to take feedback (Emmanuel) while giving full 100% effort each time. Phil has very obvious peaks and valleys in his effort and really needs to be driven by his partner (unfortunately). How many more wins/medals could Phil have gotten with the same partners but Alison's drive to win?
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Post by volleyballjim on Oct 21, 2019 12:18:37 GMT -5
Can't ignore that run he and Todd made (as I recall) on the FIVB; don't recall details, but they were "the one" !
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Post by COVAlove on Oct 21, 2019 20:09:50 GMT -5
Alison has also been served a lot in his career while people have always stayed away from Phil entirely. That would likely be the case even if Phil had Alison’s partners.
I think the point of the post is a good one though.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 21, 2019 20:34:40 GMT -5
Alison has also been served a lot in his career while people have always stayed away from Phil entirely. That would likely be the case even if Phil had Alison’s partners. I think the point of the post is a good one though. Imagine Phil setting Rego anytime or Bruno in 2016. May as well go for the ace on every serve because you arent digging or blocking anything
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 22:36:25 GMT -5
alison is proud to represent his country for his entire life and phil...likes money?
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Post by swift on Oct 22, 2019 9:33:28 GMT -5
Although in my book Phil is the better volleyball player than Alison, I'd say Alison has had the better career. Something people tend to forget is that Alison almost won two olympic gold medals. Unfortunately for him the ref did not bother to check the ball mark in the finals at the London olympic games. As mentioned before he's probably had the better partners though. Talking about just the "big" guys I actually think both Alison and Ricardo have had better careers than Phil. Mainly because after Todd left the game Phil didn't really have as much success anymore.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 22, 2019 13:24:26 GMT -5
Although in my book Phil is the better volleyball player than Alison, I'd say Alison has had the better career. Something people tend to forget is that Alison almost won two olympic gold medals. Unfortunately for him the ref did not bother to check the ball mark in the finals at the London olympic games. As mentioned before he's probably had the better partners though. Talking about just the "big" guys I actually think both Alison and Ricardo have had better careers than Phil. Mainly because after Todd left the game Phil didn't really have as much success anymore. In the FIVB era definitely those three guys for best bigs with Ricardo, Alison and Phil in order of accomplishments but Phil being the best. For defenders though, who is second best after Emmanuel? Todd accomplished the most but I think thats because he had Phil at Phil's peak.
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Post by butteryhands on Oct 22, 2019 16:03:08 GMT -5
I think the Olympics get a bit overvalued. Yes it's because they are prestigious and the culmination of a long process. But in truth the number of tough teams is less in comparison with a typical five star event. I would also be interested to see how many international events each guy has played. It is a tough comparison because they play on separate domestic tours. The eye test would seem to make me feel that Phil is a superior player. Allison also got to play with Bruno who arguably was the best player in the world for about a two year window.
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Post by bouncethat on Oct 22, 2019 19:54:47 GMT -5
I think the Olympics get a bit overvalued. Yes it's because they are prestigious and the culmination of a long process. But in truth the number of tough teams is less in comparison with a typical five star event. I would also be interested to see how many international events each guy has played. It is a tough comparison because they play on separate domestic tours. The eye test would seem to make me feel that Phil is a superior player. Allison also got to play with Bruno who arguably was the best player in the world for about a two year window. Try telling any olympic medalist that it's "overvalued", doubt anyone would agree.
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Post by butteryhands on Oct 22, 2019 21:50:37 GMT -5
Not in terms of monetary payoff or the process to get there. But it is undeniably a less competitive group of teams competing than at a typical five star FIVB tournament.
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Post by COVAlove on Oct 22, 2019 22:19:56 GMT -5
Not in terms of monetary payoff or the process to get there. But it is undeniably a less competitive group of teams competing than at a typical five star FIVB tournament. In a way that is also one of the good things about the olympics is not as much of a chance the elite teams get tripped up early.
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Post by swift on Oct 23, 2019 2:06:40 GMT -5
Not in terms of monetary payoff or the process to get there. But it is undeniably a less competitive group of teams competing than at a typical five star FIVB tournament. The pressure is much higher though. You wait 4 years to play in the Olympics, so you definitely don't want to blow it. Seems to me that it can be easier for the underdogs to do well in the Olympics because of the less competitive group of teams however for the top teams it probably feels a lot more difficult to win the Olympics than a regular five star FIVB event.
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Post by guest2 on Oct 23, 2019 3:40:59 GMT -5
Not in terms of monetary payoff or the process to get there. But it is undeniably a less competitive group of teams competing than at a typical five star FIVB tournament. The pressure is much higher though. You wait 4 years to play in the Olympics, so you definitely don't want to blow it. Seems to me that it can be easier for the underdogs to do well in the Olympics because of the less competitive group of teams however for the top teams it probably feels a lot more difficult to win the Olympics than a regular five star FIVB event. I agree its often a lousy event, but its the one that matters most to players so a decent gauge of who comes to play when it matters most. Of course sometimes certain teams get a bad draw, but I used it since its what matters to players. Same stuff goes for WCs
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Post by dunninla3 on Oct 23, 2019 15:48:11 GMT -5
There is a difference between "Best Career" and "GOAT".
GOAT means at his peak of physical skills and motivation, there has been nobody better. Phil is the GOAT.
Best career depends partly on talent, partly on Partner, and partly, long term anyway, on motivation. Yeah, Alison or Ricardo "best career".
If we're talking peak physical skills and motivation, Mike Lambert is up there too, but sadly only for about three years.
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