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Post by bombsaway on Dec 6, 2019 11:56:03 GMT -5
Troy is definitely more physically gifted than Tri Bourne or Trevor but again the same applies. Exceptional sideout (setting especially) and good service pressure and blocking discipline makes up for lack in verticality
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Post by guest2 on Dec 6, 2019 11:56:38 GMT -5
I don't think Troy has hand-eye reaction time to be a high level digger. He could certainly work on fixing his weird hand positioning on his overt and digging which last year often resulted in the ball being shanked off the court. I do think he has relatively short arms compared to most blockers but obviously there is room for growth in how he reads hitters when blocking and just being more disciplined. He did make some good strides in the ball control aspects last year and will likely be much more consistent now that he'll be practicing with his partner on a weekly basis. This is a good point. Watching Brandie and Kerri drop and dig really shows the benefit of technique, Brandie is both faster and quicker but digs half the balls Kerri does. I think Troy could be good in a split blocking alignment
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kob
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Post by kob on Dec 6, 2019 12:05:54 GMT -5
I don't think Troy has hand-eye reaction time to be a high level digger. He could certainly work on fixing his weird hand positioning on his overt and digging which last year often resulted in the ball being shanked off the court. I do think he has relatively short arms compared to most blockers but obviously there is room for growth in how he reads hitters when blocking and just being more disciplined. He did make some good strides in the ball control aspects last year and will likely be much more consistent now that he'll be practicing with his partner on a weekly basis. This is a good point. Watching Brandie and Kerri drop and dig really shows the benefit of technique, Brandie is both faster and quicker but digs half the balls Kerri does. I think Troy could be good in a split blocking alignment I'd like to see Troy split blocking, that could be a good in-between that will take advantage of his strengths
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Post by ajm on Dec 6, 2019 13:46:12 GMT -5
Agreed Casey had maybe a few years of above average defending and nothing more than that, but the best coaches weren't always the best players. Casey is closer to consistently being in the bottom half of the AVP MD than Troy is to being an Olympian - he is young and should take all the experience he can get from a guy who is an international veteran and Olympian. Yeah, one thing that does get overlooked with Casey is he is a bold thinker about VB. Him switching to full time defense was a masterstroke and it extended his career and got him an FIVB win, which he never gets otherwise The main reason Casey had success on defense at the international level is because of Jake. I'm not sure we should be so quick to convert all our top blocking prospects to defense unless we think Jake and Phil are going to be playing until they're 50.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 6, 2019 15:43:16 GMT -5
Yeah, one thing that does get overlooked with Casey is he is a bold thinker about VB. Him switching to full time defense was a masterstroke and it extended his career and got him an FIVB win, which he never gets otherwise The main reason Casey had success on defense at the international level is because of Jake. I'm not sure we should be so quick to convert all our top blocking prospects to defense unless we think Jake and Phil are going to be playing until they're 50. I wish Jake would. I agree he was more the driving force on that partnership, but I doubt there was any defender who could have gotten Casey a win as a blocker
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Post by ajm on Dec 6, 2019 16:37:14 GMT -5
The main reason Casey had success on defense at the international level is because of Jake. I'm not sure we should be so quick to convert all our top blocking prospects to defense unless we think Jake and Phil are going to be playing until they're 50. I wish Jake would. I agree he was more the driving force on that partnership, but I doubt there was any defender who could have gotten Casey a win as a blocker Do you think there’s an American blocker besides Phil or Jake who could get Troy an FIVB win as a full time defender?
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Post by haze on Dec 6, 2019 17:50:26 GMT -5
Casey IMO is a funnel defender. He needs a block that is big, consistent, disciplined, and takes an area away from the hitter so he has a lane to play defense around. He doesn't read well at all and he doesn't anticipate. It should be interesting with Field who is not a disciplined big block.
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Post by haze on Dec 6, 2019 17:51:45 GMT -5
I wish Jake would. I agree he was more the driving force on that partnership, but I doubt there was any defender who could have gotten Casey a win as a blocker Do you think there’s an American blocker besides Phil or Jake who could get Troy an FIVB win as a full time defender? No. On top of that, the only American blocker besides Phil or Jake that IMO even has a chance for an FIVB win with anybody is Chase, and although I do think he has potential, I think that is a long ways off.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 6, 2019 18:04:38 GMT -5
I wish Jake would. I agree he was more the driving force on that partnership, but I doubt there was any defender who could have gotten Casey a win as a blocker Do you think there’s an American blocker besides Phil or Jake who could get Troy an FIVB win as a full time defender? I dont think there is an American blocker right now that could get a 28 year old Sinjin Smith and FIVB win
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2019 18:19:45 GMT -5
Casey IMO is a funnel defender. He needs a block that is big, consistent, disciplined, and takes an area away from the hitter so he has a lane to play defense around. He doesn't read well at all and he doesn't anticipate. It should be interesting with Field who is not a disciplined big block. i actually think he "reads" well, he is just super slow and has awful form
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Post by stephenasinjin on Dec 7, 2019 15:58:28 GMT -5
It’s been shown you can have success on the fivb even as an undersized team. Bourne/Hyde’s were top 15 in the world at one time. Troy is the US blocker with the most untapped potential besides Chase, no reason to throw that away. Continue to develop fundamentals with Casey, and let’s re-evaluate in a year. Could not have made a better partner switch at this point in his career.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 7, 2019 16:51:28 GMT -5
It’s been shown you can have success on the fivb even as an undersized team. Bourne/Hyde’s were top 15 in the world at one time. Troy is the US blocker with the most untapped potential besides Chase, no reason to throw that away. Continue to develop fundamentals with Casey, and let’s re-evaluate in a year. Could not have made a better partner switch at this point in his career. Its a stretch to call Bourne/Hyden successful. Tri and John had one lightning strike win in which they Slaes' out a victory and were competitive exactly once thereafter in 30 events. (they played 40, but a ton were opens - the equivalent of 3 stars). John and Doherty were 5 points from achieving the same success a few years later despite only playing 8 events. You can succeed on the FIVB as an undersized team, that much is certainly clear, but its also clear that the more effective way is the conventional one. Almost all of the top teams of the last 10 years have featured a great blocker. If Troy were exceptional for his size at the net, or had a Rogers level partner playing D then Id say great, stick with blocking but given his marginal success committing to the more difficult path seems like a bad choice
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Post by swift on Dec 9, 2019 6:46:11 GMT -5
I think playing with Casey will be valuable to Troy as well, but also agree with swift and COVAlove that Troy's future is as a defender. Right now he is a weak, undersized blocker. Why waste several years to maybe develop into a pretty good undersized blocker when there is so much more potential on defense? Nothing stopping him - in theory anyway - from becoming a great defender I would also like to see Troy transition to a defender because he has potential to be a great side out player and I would like to see him get some transition plays. However, I don't know why everyone is saying he is undersized, nor why that is the only attribute of a blocker that seems to matter. He is 6'4. He has over a 40 inch vertical. Gavira/Herrera are both 6'4 Samilovs/Smedins are 6'5/6'3 Grimalts are 6'5/6'3 All these teams have proven to be a force on the tour (less to the Grimalts, they were a breakout team this year but have potential) None of the above guys appear to have the same vertical as Troy though. I think if he hones in his blocking skills, much to how Jake Gibb does at his age, he could do really well. Let's not forget that Troy only decided to pursue beach as a profession in 2017. Let's give him time to grow either as a defender or blocker (Unfortunately for smaller players) a taller blocker will always have an advantage over a smaller blocker with bigger hops. There have been several examples for small blockers with big hops that failed to become good blockers. For example Jason Ring or Josh Slack from Australia. Both these guys could jump to the moon (just like Troy) and occasionaly got some very impressive blocks but in general their impact at the net was very minor from what I've seen. Herrera/Gavira and Samoilov/Smedinvs are all exceptional overall volleyball players which allows them to make up for their disadvantage at the net. However Troy is not nearly the player these 4 guys are and even they have been struggling lately against the top blockers on the FIVB tour. I personally think he should focus on defense. In those McKibbin snow volleyball videos he made some pretty good digs and with his athletic abilities he should definitely be able to become a decent defender.
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Post by stephenasinjin on Dec 9, 2019 15:08:26 GMT -5
It’s been shown you can have success on the fivb even as an undersized team. Bourne/Hyde’s were top 15 in the world at one time. Troy is the US blocker with the most untapped potential besides Chase, no reason to throw that away. Continue to develop fundamentals with Casey, and let’s re-evaluate in a year. Could not have made a better partner switch at this point in his career. Its a stretch to call Bourne/Hyden successful. Tri and John had one lightning strike win in which they Slaes' out a victory and were competitive exactly once thereafter in 30 events. (they played 40, but a ton were opens - the equivalent of 3 stars). John and Doherty were 5 points from achieving the same success a few years later despite only playing 8 events. You can succeed on the FIVB as an undersized team, that much is certainly clear, but its also clear that the more effective way is the conventional one. Almost all of the top teams of the last 10 years have featured a great blocker. If Troy were exceptional for his size at the net, or had a Rogers level partner playing D then Id say great, stick with blocking but given his marginal success committing to the more difficult path seems like a bad choice In 2016 hyden/Bourne achieved a silver and 3 bronzes including bronze at world champs in 17 events. Not earth shattering but successful. Agreed it’s easier to be successful with a bigger blocker for the reasons everyone has said above. However, that requires a large, skilled blocker, not a brute. As far as I’m concerned, chase is the closest thing the US will have for 2024 by a mile. I don’t see Troy transitioning to the right side due to his lack of technicality as established above, meaning the only potential splitblocker out there is Trevor. I don’t see that happening either. Since those options are nonexistent for him, might as well continue to develop and have a chance by being a blocker.
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Post by guest2 on Dec 9, 2019 15:28:21 GMT -5
Its a stretch to call Bourne/Hyden successful. Tri and John had one lightning strike win in which they Slaes' out a victory and were competitive exactly once thereafter in 30 events. (they played 40, but a ton were opens - the equivalent of 3 stars). John and Doherty were 5 points from achieving the same success a few years later despite only playing 8 events. You can succeed on the FIVB as an undersized team, that much is certainly clear, but its also clear that the more effective way is the conventional one. Almost all of the top teams of the last 10 years have featured a great blocker. If Troy were exceptional for his size at the net, or had a Rogers level partner playing D then Id say great, stick with blocking but given his marginal success committing to the more difficult path seems like a bad choice In 2016 hyden/Bourne achieved a silver and 3 bronzes including bronze at world champs in 17 events. Not earth shattering but successful. Agreed it’s easier to be successful with a bigger blocker for the reasons everyone has said above. However, that requires a large, skilled blocker, not a brute. As far as I’m concerned, chase is the closest thing the US will have for 2024 by a mile. I don’t see Troy transitioning to the right side due to his lack of technicality as established above, meaning the only potential splitblocker out there is Trevor. I don’t see that happening either. Since those options are nonexistent for him, might as well continue to develop and have a chance by being a blocker. Except for the WC, those were all Opens, not full field events. Essentially three stars. Doherty/Hyden, Allen/Slick and Priddy/Brunner all had podium finishes in 3 stars this year. I agree a skilled blocker is better than a brute, but oaf-ish types have had more success in the past. Doherty has contested multiple 4 and 5 star finals and semis. Tri, despite being a much more skilled and complete player, has basically accomplished the same with better partners. Its awful what that says about the state of the game but its true
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