Trans athletes in women’s sports

[rook]

So, I recently watched a team win their conference tournament and was thinking, “ya know, that player moves like a man, and plays like a man.” Turns out, I wasn’t far off. That player was a man in high school, and has “transitioned” to a woman and is now dominating in college. I fail to see how this, in any way, is good for women’s sports.

People can say whatever they want about hormone therapy, but that doesn’t change bone structure, blood circulation capabilities, muscle structure, quick twitch fiber, greater cross section of muscle fibers in the upper body, increased height, weight, and strength, or the experience of having played men’s sports growing up (just to name a few). Plus, it’s not just about testosterone levels. There are natural women who have conditions that cause naturally higher testosterone levels, and they shouldn’t be punished for this.

I would have a really hard time looking my team in the eye and saying they lost a fair fight if we just lost in a championship match, or in the tournament, because the other team was playing with a stacked deck.

And if you are in the “there’s no difference between men and women crowd,” then let’s just abolish all classifications in sports.

The NCAA, high school associations, USAV, AAU, and JVA have all thus far done little to nothing to address the issue because they are all terrified of pissing people off.

I imagine I’ll get killed on this thread, but if we want to talk about true women’s equality, it needs to be addressed and debated; rather than shouted down every time a reasonable discussion is sought out.

[socalplayer]

1000% agree

[rjaege]

If trans male to female atheletes become common and/or become game changers in the NCAA tournament or conference championships,it will hurt women's volleyball. Ditto other women's sports. I am not familiar with the case described, but agree that trans male to female athletes have an advantage in women's sports and it doesn't seem fair to me. JMHO.

Having a relative trying such a transition, he is no happier now than she was. But that is a single case. I see long term problems for my relative, but athletic competition is not an issue. Call me biased, not true I'm non-judgemental, to each his/her own. I wish him the best regardless.

[v0lleym0m]

I agree. Physiologically born males (biologically born, not talking gender roles here) possess, on average, 1/3 more muscle mass than a biologically born female, most of that additional body muscle is found in the upper body.

Biological males are equipped to deal with short bursts of intense activity. This is due to their increased glycolytic capacity, in easy to understand terms it allows for fast metabolism of glucose to generate ATP (via a complicated process that is cellular level in nature) which in turn becomes chemical energy usable by muscle.

We are doing female sports and equality within female sports a disservice by not acknowledging that beyond "assigned" gender roles there does not exist physiological difference between bio females and males.

[azvb]

www.facebook.com/stvnews/videos/1675804162552851?vh=e&sfns=mo

This sums up my feelings. We need to come up something fair for all involved. Simply “identifying” as a woman should not be a reason to allowing someone to compete against women. No more than “identifying” as Native American should allow me monthly benefits reserved for Native Americans. I’m not closing the door, more research, studies need to be done.

As Martina says, we’ve been fighting a long time for equality, and still don’t have it (i.e. seeding in volleyball!), now we have to fight for our rights to only play against women?

She’s done a documentary. Not sure if this is before or after that.

[HappyVolley]

Dec 7, 2019 12:19:56 GMT -5 v0lleym0m said:

I agree. Physiologically born males (biologically born, not talking gender roles here) possess, on average, 1/3 more muscle mass than a biologically born female, most of that additional body muscle is found in the upper body.

Biological males are equipped to deal with short bursts of intense activity. This is due to their increased glycolytic capacity, in easy to understand terms it allows for fast metabolism of glucose to generate ATP (via a complicated process that is cellular level in nature) which in turn becomes chemical energy usable by muscle.

We are doing female sports and equality within female sports a disservice by not acknowledging that beyond "assigned" gender roles there does not exist physiological difference between bio females and males.

You might want to edit that last sentence.

[volleyball303]

Oh you are going to get attacked but I 100% agree.

[jgrout]

This is a touchy subject. There are programs, and perhaps some whole conferences, that want to exclude lesbians from participation in women’s college athletics. There is a correlation, though not an overt causation, of masculinization by higher levels of free testosterone and lesbian sexual orientation.

In some parts of the country, it would be easy to use testing as both a mechanism and an excuse to out lesbians, including those who are not actually threats to fair competition, just by leaking names of those with elevated testosterone levels whether clinically significant or not. There is already a normal range of free testosterone produced by a women’s ovaries and lesser elevated free testosterone levels are more correlated to increased sexual desire than to sexual orientation... but those looking for scapegoats are rarely choosy about how they are chosen.

Unfortunately, doing nothing is probably also untenable. There were very strong negative feelings about a famous women’s basketball player who was repeatedly invited to participate with USA Basketball and kept refusing... leading to strong suspicions that she could not pass the genetic and hormonal testing done for international competition in women’s sports. For example, an otherwise normal woman with three sex chromosomes (XXY) gains such an immense advantage from free testosterone and similar factors that she cannot compete fairly against women within any normal hormonal range. This player won multiple NCAA WBB championships and came out as a lesbian, but all of the antipathy felt toward her at the programs whose teams hers beat was about her perceived genetic advantages, not about her orientation.

If out gay women connected to women’s college sports do not want this issue resolved, it probably won’t be. They will have to lead the way to ensure that it does not turn into an anti-lesbian crusade.

[Fight On!]

There are already two large threads on this.
One about T. Abreu and one about T. Thompson.

[gobruins]

I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport.

[Fight On!]

Dec 7, 2019 14:01:59 GMT -5 jgrout said:

Dec 7, 2019 13:49:11 GMT -5 Fight On! said:

There are already two large threads on this.
One about T. Abreu and one about T. Thompson.

I have never heard anyone claim that TT had any sort of unfair physical advantage... as far as U-Dub players were concerned, we saved that for Sonia Tomasevic, whose unfair physical advantage came from her being a 25 year old college “senior”.

Tia Thompson. You’re not thinking of the same person as me.

[dcvolleyball]

I just don't know what this thread accomplishes other than being divisive and causing drama. There is little to no evidence that this phenomenon you speak of is actually having any meaningful impact on the NCAA or High School game currently. I suggest people actually educate themselves on issues of gender identity and biological diversity before beginning a thread that only perpetuates misinformation and false narratives.

[dcvolleyball]

Dec 7, 2019 14:03:01 GMT -5 gobruins said:

I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport.

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

[n00b]

Dec 7, 2019 14:47:43 GMT -5 dcvolleyball said:

I just don't know what this thread accomplishes other than being divisive and causing drama. There is little to no evidence that this phenomenon you speak of is actually having any meaningful impact on the NCAA or High School game currently. I suggest people actually educate themselves on issues of gender identity and biological diversity before beginning a thread that only perpetuates misinformation and false narratives.

Here’s your chance. Educate people and point out the false narratives.

[HappyVolley]

Dec 7, 2019 14:03:01 GMT -5 gobruins said:

I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport.

I guess  you have. This is actually a pretty big issue in international cycling and weightlifting right now.  You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard of the controversy and litigation resulting from biological males winning track championships in Connecticut high school girls competition.