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Post by volleyball303 on Dec 7, 2019 15:26:40 GMT -5
I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport. I guess you have. This is actually a pretty big issue in international cycling and weightlifting right now. You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard of the controversy and litigation resulting from biological males winning track championships in Connecticut high school girls competition. Right? The world cycling second place received death threats for not wanting to were an equality pin after losing to a transgender woman.
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Post by leftyopp on Dec 7, 2019 15:27:11 GMT -5
I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport. I guess you have. This is actually a pretty big issue in international cycling and weightlifting right now. You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard of the controversy and litigation resulting from biological males winning track championships in Connecticut high school girls competition. Here are just two as examples... a number of professional/Olympic athletes have spoken out about this issue (in particular Martina Navratilova) and have been subsequently slammed for voicing their concerns. humanevents.com/2019/07/20/transgender-athletes-threaten-womens-sports/nypost.com/2019/03/04/trans-athletes-are-making-a-travesty-of-womens-sports/
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Post by Sbilo on Dec 7, 2019 15:32:46 GMT -5
I don’t know if she was trans but I watched a game between Thailand and Indonesia years back and Indonesia had a player named April Manganang, who I think is a trans. She was just around 5’7 but even the world-ranked Thai team can’t stop her. She’s built like a man, acts like a man and hits like a man.
It was unfair IMHO.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 7, 2019 15:36:58 GMT -5
This is an issue that will divide everyone. I have donated to friends transitions, I will call ANYONE regardless post op, pre op, by their preferred pro bounds. I support trans rights 10000 percent And as a member of the lgbt community, I will fight for my trans brothers and sisters. , but when it comes to playing sports, obviously we don’t understand everything and we can’t just jump into this “they’re the same as a biological female let them play” notion.
It’s just simply not true. There is a clear advantage. But if we force them to stay in their assigned “birth gender” when it’s a FTM on testosterone, competing against females, is that also an advantage? Do we let them compete against the boys but force the mtf also to compete against the boys? We can’t pick and choose.
No side is right or wrong in this debate because there is so much info that needs to be taken in and examined
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Post by volleykenzie on Dec 7, 2019 15:44:44 GMT -5
I must have missed all those stories about trans athletes winning all those women's championships and dominating their sport. I guess you have. This is actually a pretty big issue in international cycling and weightlifting right now. You must be living under a rock if you haven't heard of the controversy and litigation resulting from biological males winning track championships in Connecticut high school girls competition. one of the few things ct is known for
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Post by cindra on Dec 7, 2019 15:50:24 GMT -5
One of the problems is that, from what I gather, there aren't a lot of studies out about how transitioning actually affects athletic performance. There are some in the works but it takes time because of how long HRT can take to fully kick in. Hard to make any evidence based decision when a lot of this stuff just has to do with what gets published in the papers or not.
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Post by B1Gminnesotafan on Dec 7, 2019 15:52:15 GMT -5
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 7, 2019 16:24:35 GMT -5
I don’t know if she was trans but I watched a game between Thailand and Indonesia years back and Indonesia had a player named April Manganang, who I think is a trans. She was just around 5’7 but even the world-ranked Thai team can’t stop her. She’s built like a man, acts like a man and hits like a man. It was unfair IMHO. She is not trans AFAIK.
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rook
Sophomore
Posts: 180
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Post by rook on Dec 7, 2019 17:30:32 GMT -5
I just don't know what this thread accomplishes other than being divisive and causing drama. There is little to no evidence that this phenomenon you speak of is actually having any meaningful impact on the NCAA or High School game currently. I suggest people actually educate themselves on issues of gender identity and biological diversity before beginning a thread that only perpetuates misinformation and false narratives. Well, I just watched a team lose their conference tournament, and watched others lose in the NCAA tournament (I won’t name the division, as this isn’t about outing anyone) to a player who was a man in high school. So...I would define that as a meaningful impact on other women who were knocked out of the NCAA’s, maybe their only opportunity ever to compete for an NCAA championship.
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Post by donut on Dec 7, 2019 17:56:03 GMT -5
Geez, it's not even the offseason. This will be my only post on this, because I'm hoping it fades away to the second page once the tournament games start tonight. There have already been 40-page threads on this topic, so if you really feel like engaging with the "discussion" around this issue, I'd suggest you start reading. I highly doubt you or anyone has anything novel to add. And shocker: these threads always end up operating similar to pointless Facebook comments debates. So sure, if you have an agenda or stance you need to promulgate, post away, but let's not veil this at some attempt for advocacy or equality. This is Volleytalk, not the US Senate floor. My takeaway from the previous "discussions" on this board: people can say they aren't transphoblic blah blah blah, but the most telling sign to me about people's stance on this issue is that the argument is always "it's unfair to MY daughter or MY team" instead of focusing on dignifying the trans individuals, by positively exploring how we can modify the rules to adapt to our growing understanding of gender and sex. It's a f*cking game compared to someone's identity/life, and all of these inflated/dramatic fears about "biological boys are going to beat my biological girl daughter!!!!" really just demonstrates misplaced values and a lack of empathy.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 7, 2019 18:06:54 GMT -5
We know, scientifically, that people with specific genetic profiles have genetic advantages when it comes to specific athletic activities. Be careful what you ask for here, lest you start finding yourself arguing that, for example, Kenyans need to be banned from Olympic marathons in the name of fairness to all the other athletes.
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Post by mpr2477 on Dec 7, 2019 18:29:55 GMT -5
Geez, it's not even the offseason. This will be my only post on this, because I'm hoping it fades away to the second page once the tournament games start tonight. There have already been 40-page threads on this topic, so if you really feel like engaging with the "discussion" around this issue, I'd suggest you start reading. I highly doubt you or anyone has anything novel to add. And shocker: these threads always end up operating similar to pointless Facebook comments debates. So sure, if you have an agenda or stance you need to promulgate, post away, but let's not veil this at some attempt for advocacy or equality. This is Volleytalk, not the US Senate floor. My takeaway from the previous "discussions" on this board: people can say they aren't transphoblic blah blah blah, but the most telling sign to me about people's stance on this issue is that the argument is always "it's unfair to MY daughter or MY team" instead of focusing on dignifying the trans individuals, by positively exploring how we can modify the rules to adapt to our growing understanding of gender and sex. It's a f*cking game compared to someone's identity/life, and all of these inflated/dramatic fears about "biological boys are going to beat my biological girl daughter!!!!" really just demonstrates misplaced values and a lack of empathy. Geezus.....(rolls eyes at your post).... I’m sorry, but if a male wants to transition to a female, fine, let him. That is his choice and hopefully they find happiness. But...once they do transition, they have waived their right to play sanctioned/competitive sports as a female. They would and do, clearly have an advantage. This part, is fact, not opinion. I don’t agree with Navratilova on most things, but I do on this issue of letting trans females compete against biological females. It will ruin female sports.
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Post by cindra on Dec 7, 2019 18:33:43 GMT -5
They would and do, clearly have an advantage. This part, is fact, not opinion. Please provide empirical evidence of this. There are minimal studies on the issue. Citing cycling/CT running/whatever else is not fact, it is cherrypicking. If you can find a study, I would be glad to see it, honestly. It would validate all of my googling on the issue.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 7, 2019 18:41:30 GMT -5
They would and do, clearly have an advantage. This part, is fact, not opinion. Please provide empirical evidence of this. There are minimal studies on the issue. Citing cycling/CT running/whatever else is not fact, it is cherrypicking. If you can find a study, I would be glad to see it, honestly. It would validate all of my googling on the issue. I mean, wouldn’t the burden of proof be on you? Because the other side has provided numerous cases where the trans athlete was clearly at an advantage. The question wether if they won because they are trans or not is up to debate, but in almost every case I’ve read, the trans athlete has dominated
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Post by bball on Dec 7, 2019 18:43:42 GMT -5
I agree Rook
Dan Rettke should be barred from Wisconsin
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