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Post by Boof1224 on Apr 26, 2021 22:52:19 GMT -5
I think this thread is a demonstration of why meaningful discussions on racism are difficult when there are differences of opinion. Very strong feelings. Moderates stay out. Not a good situation and not conductive to resolution. But what do I know, I'm just an old guy who doesn't understand what "homegirl" means, which apparently makes me suspect of something nefarious. Whatever the problem is at Mizzou I hope it works out for the best for student athletes. I could see potential for a lot of problems with a very young husband and wife coaching team. Suspect Mizzou will address the problem, whatever it is, shortly. Racism isn’t a ‘difference of opinion’. Delete this. Edit: and don’t blame your ignorance on being ‘just and old guy’. It makes you look even dumber. Your the bully. They were prob referring to the things being considered racist. But you just want to hate |
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Post by rjaege on Apr 26, 2021 22:59:28 GMT -5
I think this thread is a demonstration of why meaningful discussions on racism are difficult when there are differences of opinion. Very strong feelings. Moderates stay out. Not a good situation and not conductive to resolution. But what do I know, I'm just an old guy who doesn't understand what "homegirl" means, which apparently makes me suspect of something nefarious. Whatever the problem is at Mizzou I hope it works out for the best for student athletes. I could see potential for a lot of problems with a very young husband and wife coaching team. Suspect Mizzou will address the problem, whatever it is, shortly. Racism isn’t a ‘difference of opinion’. Delete this. Edit: and don’t blame your ignorance on being ‘just and old guy’. It makes you look even dumber. Agree racism is not a difference of opinion, nor am I denying it exists. But there are differences of opinion on what constitutes racism and how to address it. I'm old and "homegirl" is a term that I am not familiar with. I was trying to be humorous with my initial post. But yes I'm ignorant with respect to this term and why my attempt at humor drew offense. I'll stay away from "homegirl" in the future. Hope that helps. |
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Post by chatchu-off moksri on Apr 26, 2021 23:11:52 GMT -5
You don’t have to call him a racist, but I will call him a racist because he is. It’s out there now. I can say from 1st hand experience that Josh Taylor is a racist. I told him to his face that he is a racist. Karma is everything. He is getting all that he deserves. I am glad that the girls have finally taken a stance. If you are a black or brown girl, this is not the place for you. I don’t think they have to worry because he won’t recruit them anyway. When the black and brown girls called him out on it, they were suspended. One for sure filed a title IX complaint for racism and retaliation. He deleted his social media because he had made racist post. He deleted his social media accounts around June of 2020. Mizzou is aware because the girls have told them in their exit interviews. The Kreklows were nothing like this pair. I hate to see this happen to a program that the Kreklows built that was embracing of all ethnicities. Very sad. They need to fire Josh Taylor. How is Munlyn standing this?! I, too, would like to know this |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 27, 2021 1:40:53 GMT -5
What's the actual # of Mizzou players transferring out since the end of 2019 season?
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Post by hornshouse23 on Apr 27, 2021 1:48:57 GMT -5
It's very unfortunate that one poster in particular has turned this into an extreme unrelated political debate that has completely derailed the thread. This is a sensitive topic but is very relevant (especially regarding an extraordinarily high number of transfers from one program in specific) and could be experienced by others at their universities. Nobody else is turning this into a R/L issue, while that poster is. It's inappropriate. He should be dealt with. Oh stop. It all started cause I was trying to defend someone for asking more questions about situation. And when I’m told to keep my white conservative racist views that’s not wrong. I made the mistake saying anytime but no one wants to answer the question have they seen the term racism abused cause it has been. I would have stopped along time ago if someone would have just acknowledged that question but no one wants to answer it they just want to call me ignorant and such. Should this be off vt forums and off thread absolutely. If anyone saw the group I hung out with they would know I’m not racist but going against the lefts ideology I guess makes you that. I’m not a conservative either by the way I’m independent. My views lie right in middle normally Delete this grammar-lacking word vomit. No one owes you an answer to a ridiculous question. Nothing anyone says to you will make you see how you came out here guns blazing to minimize the experience of the athletes that are leaving Mizzou. No one linked you being conservative to your being racist- I linked this conversation to your being racist. You’re the one that brought left and right politics into it, and then bam. No surprises where you land on that spectrum. If you’re going to spin yourself into the victim for being called out for doing that, at least summarize it correctly and accurately (we can read your former posts; you realize that?), and take the time to spellcheck, and address your grammar issues. This hooked-on-phonics mess is an embarrassment to yourself. There’s enough to be embarrassed by without all the run-on sentences and barely comprehend-able grammar. Log off. |
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Post by trojansc on Apr 27, 2021 1:49:43 GMT -5
What's the actual # of Mizzou players transferring out since the end of 2019 season? I believe it's 9? With 7 of 8 women of color transferring? |
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Post by Boof1224 on Apr 27, 2021 1:50:22 GMT -5
Oh stop. It all started cause I was trying to defend someone for asking more questions about situation. And when I’m told to keep my white conservative racist views that’s not wrong. I made the mistake saying anytime but no one wants to answer the question have they seen the term racism abused cause it has been. I would have stopped along time ago if someone would have just acknowledged that question but no one wants to answer it they just want to call me ignorant and such. Should this be off vt forums and off thread absolutely. If anyone saw the group I hung out with they would know I’m not racist but going against the lefts ideology I guess makes you that. I’m not a conservative either by the way I’m independent. My views lie right in middle normally Delete this grammar-lacking word vomit. No one owes you an answer to a ridiculous question. Nothing anyone says to you will make you see how you came out here guns blazing to minimize the experience of the athletes that are leaving Mizzou. No one linked you being conservative to your being racist- I linked this conversation to your being racist. You’re the one that brought left and right politics into it, and then bam. No surprises where you land on that spectrum. If you’re going to spin yourself into the victim for being called out for doing that, at least summarize it correctly and accurately (we can read your former posts; you realize that?), and take the time to spellcheck, and address your grammar issues. This hooked-on-phonics mess is an embarrassment to yourself. There’s enough to be embarrassed by without all the run-on sentences and barely comprehend-able grammar. Log off. You just can’t help yourself can you. I said of stop. You just couldn’t leave it alone could you. You want to criticize and name call me and then just want me to shut up. That’s not how it works. I just said I’d leave it alone and drop it if others did and you just couldn’t help it |
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Post by hornshouse23 on Apr 27, 2021 1:52:00 GMT -5
Delete this grammar-lacking word vomit. No one owes you an answer to a ridiculous question. Nothing anyone says to you will make you see how you came out here guns blazing to minimize the experience of the athletes that are leaving Mizzou. No one linked you being conservative to your being racist- I linked this conversation to your being racist. You’re the one that brought left and right politics into it, and then bam. No surprises where you land on that spectrum. If you’re going to spin yourself into the victim for being called out for doing that, at least summarize it correctly and accurately (we can read your former posts; you realize that?), and take the time to spellcheck, and address your grammar issues. This hooked-on-phonics mess is an embarrassment to yourself. There’s enough to be embarrassed by without all the run-on sentences and barely comprehend-able grammar. Log off. You just can’t help yourself can you. I said of stop. You just couldn’t leave it alone could you. You get less and less coherent with everything you post. Everything okay? Edit: and we aren’t going to do is let the folks who came in their bigotry and bid dictate how this plays out. Keep posting. Keep embarrassing yourself. I have all night. |
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Post by babybacksets on Apr 27, 2021 1:57:27 GMT -5
Please kill this conversation. I think you both/all have said everything you needed to say and it didn’t go anywhere lol racists are gonna racist and if Taylor really was a birther/Qanon crazy then he’ll be gone soon enough of the program continues to tank like this. Believe a successful Mizzou softball coach was let go rather abruptly for much less if my memory serves me right.
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Post by rainbowsets on Apr 27, 2021 2:01:44 GMT -5
bottom line: mizzou players have expressed hurt. as a volleyball community, we only wish them the best in healing both on and off the court.
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Post by knapplc on Apr 27, 2021 6:59:24 GMT -5
They should have been told about this: "When the black and brown girls called him out on it, they were suspended." Regardless of Taylor's political views, if some of his players feel like he's being racist, he shouldn't retaliate. That's never ok for a coach. It's worse bc it's a state school so it's the state of Missouri retaliating against players for raising concerns about racial discrimination. The administration should definitely be worried about that, esp given the racial tension on Mizzou's campus. Completely agree. At one of my old jobs there was a running joke about me and retaliation, the union rep would get mad at me because I would always warn other employees when they were going to blow the whistle to beware of notorious retaliation. "That's illegal! They can't retaliate", he would say. I would respond with they can, will, and are effective at covering it up or masking it. Unfortunate, but true. Luckily I don't work there anymore, they're out of business now and have already lost one class-action lawsuit while another is pending! I always tell people that retaliation is illegal - but so is robbing banks. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean the employer/school/coach won't do it. Protect yourself. Document. Record if you can (and your state has one-party consent). |
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Post by odinaka on Apr 27, 2021 8:05:51 GMT -5
I have no knowledge of the situation at Mizzou, but it must be anchored in racism, everything else is lately. 2020 was the year of covid. 2021 is rapidly developing into the year of racism. The country is a mess and maybe volleyball too. Just my ignorant opinion, but at least I don't claim otherwise. It’s because anytime someone doesn’t get their way they scream racism and catering to this just breeds more of it. Some situations that presents itself but people are abusing the term. Here comes the idiots! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 9:22:28 GMT -5
What bothers me about the above posting is this is the EXACT REASON many athletes and people of color don't speak up along with of course the potential retaliation discussed about on prior pages. There was clearly something going on at Mizzou, everyone knew. Now we have people coming on here and while they aren't explicitly saying these things are false, they are hinting at potentially discrediting or adding skepticism into any allegations of discrimination because 'racism' is now a trend in their eyes. It's inappropriate especially in a scenario where there's a terrible smell coming from a program whose original hiring scenario was already fishy. It’s because you can’t just start accusing people without proof. Their is a way our justice system is suppose to work. People want to see actual evidence. We are convicting people with mob justice right now. I’m not saying this person is or isn’t guilty. It’s a very serious charge and the responsible thing to do is gather as much evidence as you can before completely destroying peoples lives. Their is 0 wrong with asking a lot of questions. It’s the responsible thing to do before making a judgement Racists know they can’t be outwardly racist without repercussions now. So they just defend other racists on the internet. |
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Post by wingspam on Apr 27, 2021 10:58:08 GMT -5
What bothers me about the above posting is this is the EXACT REASON many athletes and people of color don't speak up along with of course the potential retaliation discussed about on prior pages. There was clearly something going on at Mizzou, everyone knew. Now we have people coming on here and while they aren't explicitly saying these things are false, they are hinting at potentially discrediting or adding skepticism into any allegations of discrimination because 'racism' is now a trend in their eyes. It's inappropriate especially in a scenario where there's a terrible smell coming from a program whose original hiring scenario was already fishy. It’s because you can’t just start accusing people without proof. Their is a way our justice system is suppose to work. People want to see actual evidence. We are convicting people with mob justice right now. I’m not saying this person is or isn’t guilty. It’s a very serious charge and the responsible thing to do is gather as much evidence as you can before completely destroying peoples lives. Their is 0 wrong with asking a lot of questions. It’s the responsible thing to do before making a judgement This (like almost everything else in the last 24 hours on this thread) has very little to do with transfers, but I feel it important to share a little bit of what I know about the subject of proving discrimination in this country. Our "justice system" is structured to function differently with discrimination than you might otherwise expect. In the 1960s, anti-discrimination laws were passed that forbid discrimination (based on sex, race, national origin, etc.) in a variety of contexts (employment, public accommodation, etc.). These laws also created a right to sue people or businesses who violated those statutes by engaging in discrimination. Early efforts to "prove" discrimination in these lawsuits proved difficult because the initial effect of the laws was not to stop discrimination but rather to cause individuals who were engaged in discrimination to stop being overt about it. That is, employers stopped saying "I am going to fire you because of your race" but they kept firing people because of their race. Absent the proverbial "smoking-gun" evidence, victims of discrimination were not successful in using the new laws to vindicate their rights. So, discrimination persisted and discriminators were insulated by the burden of proof on the victims. This issue worked its way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, which issued a landmark case in the early 1970s (McDonnell Douglas v. Green) that held that victims of discrimination ARE NOT held to an exacting burden of proof that requires them to present direct ("smoking-gun") evidence of discrimination. Instead, the burden of proof is far more nuanced and plaintiffs can either use direct evidence (e.g., "I am firing you because of your race") or indirect (often called "circumstantial") evidence. Under the indirect method, victims of discrimination first present evidence that creates the "inference" of discrimination, which shifts the burden to the alleged discriminators to explain their decisions and prove they did not discriminate. If they are able to provide a legitimate, non-discriminatory explanation, then the burden shifts back to the victim of discrimination to prove that the legitimate reason given by the alleged discriminator is actually a pretext for unlawful discrimination. By way of example, Green (who was black) had to initially prove that he was a member of a protected class (in his case race), that he was qualified for the job (a low burden), that he was discharged, and that the circumstances of his discharge give rise to an inference of discrimination (most often satisfied by showing a person of a different race was hired to replace the discharged employee). Then the burden shifts to Green's employer to provide a legitimate, non-discriminatory reason for the discharge (e.g., poor performance, attendance issues, etc.). Then the burden shifts back to Green to prove the stated reason is a pretext for discrimination (e.g., by proving the reason is not factually correct, by showing that white employees with similar performance issues were not treated the same way, or by showing that the decisionmakers had otherwise demonstrated racial animus by discriminating against other employees or making racially disparaging comments). All of this explanation is to arrive at a simple point: Racist, sexist, or ageist people are sometimes savvy enough to discriminate in ways that are not obviously racist, sexist, or ageist, and (since the 1970s!) our courts have acknowledged that it is not just to hold the victims of discrimination to an exacting burden of proof that permits the bad actors to continue discriminating in silence, even as their victims bravely break the silence regarding their mistreatment. In our civil justice system, silence by the alleged discriminator in the face of circumstantial evidence of discrimination is proof of discrimination. A final note: All of this describes civil lawsuits, not criminal trials where the burden of proof lays out differently. |
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Post by vbjustice on Apr 27, 2021 14:54:16 GMT -5
What's the actual # of Mizzou players transferring out since the end of 2019 season? I believe it's 9? With 7 of 8 women of color transferring? numbers don’t lie |
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