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Post by vofan on Apr 25, 2024 1:54:58 GMT -5
Hawaii and long beach are going to be bringing in some really strong international players. I think its worth discussing the downsides.
1. Its bad for USA volleyball. Resources and playing time of our top programs are being used to benefit non-US players.
2. It is bad for American players. They lose their spots to international guys.
3. It is not a fair competition. The international players come in way more polished than US recruits. It seems like the European juniors programs are like professional teams. So it is very hard for US players to beat these guys out for spots. Watching film of roure vs sean kelly, roure looks much more polished.
4. It creates a weird arms race. UCSD, UCSB, CSUN are very good programs but with LB and UH each having 5 rockstar international starters going forward they will have to start finding a way to compete for international talent or end up at the bottom of the big west every year. It should not be this way. You should not have to have some connection to some french national team coach or something to run a good program.
There are probably more reasons. It makes it feel like a professional sport rather than a college sport but I can't exactly articulate why.
I think a rule that you can have 2 non-US citizens per team would be fair. What do you guys think?
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Post by ManapuaSurprise on Apr 25, 2024 1:57:35 GMT -5
Hawaii and long beach are going to be bringing in some really strong international players. I think its worth discussing the downsides. 1. Its bad for USA volleyball. Resources and playing time of our top programs are being used to benefit non-US players. 2. It is bad for American players. They lose their spots to international guys. 3. It is not a fair competition. The international players come in way more polished than US recruits. It seems like the European juniors programs are like professional teams. So it is very hard for US players to beat these guys out for spots. Watching film of roure vs sean kelly, roure looks much more polished. 4. It creates a weird arms race. UCSD, UCSB, CSUN are very good programs but with LB and UH each having 5 rockstar international starters going forward they will have to start finding a way to compete for international talent or end up at the bottom of the big west every year. It should not be this way. You should not have to have some connection to some french national team coach or something to run a good program. There are probably more reasons. It makes it feel like a professional sport rather than a college sport but I can't exactly articulate why. I think a rule that you can have 2 non-US citizens per team would be fair. What do you guys think?
1. USA Volleyball is not spending anything. Universities are
2. Then they should Git gud
3. Then American clubs and schools better start getting better if they dont want to keep losing to other countries come Olympics
4. To do that, you have to place a rule where you're limiting the amount of international students that can enroll in American colleges. How would you?
Having foreign players is better for the future as kids will see a better style of play, and will increase the baseline quality throughout the country at the HS and club level. Watch how many are/will be doing those Henno throws
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Post by brooselee on Apr 25, 2024 2:42:57 GMT -5
No down side to international players. What is a team like Hawaii to do if USC, UCLA and Stanford load up their rosters with all the top level US players? Is Hawaii supposed to just settle for second tier players? I don’t think so.
University of Hawaii also have a large international student body. How can the NCAA come in and impose limits?
Not possible and possibly unconstitutional.
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Post by noblesol on Apr 25, 2024 2:53:30 GMT -5
Is Hawaii the most international of the U.S. states?
Copilot
Hawaii is often considered one of the most culturally diverse and international states in the U.S. due to its unique history and geographic location in the Pacific. It has a rich multicultural heritage, with significant influences from Asia and the Pacific Islands. The state’s population is a blend of various ethnicities, including Native Hawaiian, Asian, European, and North American, which contributes to its international character1.
The 39th Annual Pacific Rim International Conference on Disability and Diversity is an example of Hawaii’s commitment to international diversity, focusing on creating a culture of belonging and inclusion2. Additionally, Hawaii’s history of immigration, particularly during the growth of the sugar industry, brought laborers from China, Portugal, Japan, the Philippines, Korea, Puerto Rico, and Okinawa, who have all contributed to the state’s multicultural society1.
Hawaii’s approach to diversity and the blending of cultures is often cited as a model for international harmony and is a core part of its identity. This makes Hawaii stand out as a place where multiple cultures coexist and interact, creating a vibrant and diverse community1.
Learn more
1
hawaiimagazine.com
2
pacrim.coe.hawaii.edu
3
bing.com
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Post by akbar on Apr 25, 2024 4:54:32 GMT -5
Hawaii and long beach are going to be bringing in some really strong international players. I think its worth discussing the downsides. 1. Its bad for USA volleyball. Resources and playing time of our top programs are being used to benefit non-US players. 2. It is bad for American players. They lose their spots to international guys. 3. It is not a fair competition. The international players come in way more polished than US recruits. It seems like the European juniors programs are like professional teams. So it is very hard for US players to beat these guys out for spots. Watching film of roure vs sean kelly, roure looks much more polished. 4. It creates a weird arms race. UCSD, UCSB, CSUN are very good programs but with LB and UH each having 5 rockstar international starters going forward they will have to start finding a way to compete for international talent or end up at the bottom of the big west every year. It should not be this way. You should not have to have some connection to some french national team coach or something to run a good program. There are probably more reasons. It makes it feel like a professional sport rather than a college sport but I can't exactly articulate why. I think a rule that you can have 2 non-US citizens per team would be fair. What do you guys think? I appreciate your points but think a protective USA rule would be silly. These foreign athletes elevate the level of the NCAA game and our own athletes benefit from that. Every collegiate sport out their has many international student/athletes in their programs and YET the USA does extremely well in Olympic and pro sports like swimming, track & field, basketball, golf, women's soccer etc. Do better training, play more, recruit better athletes to your HS and club VB programs and more than anything support and go watch our collegiate, pro and national teams MUCH MORE when they are playing or on TV. Call for more exposure on network television. We, the VB nation in the US fail miserably in this area. Oh and btw....our Mens and Women's USA teams are both currently ranked #2 in the world and are going to earn medals this year in Paris. |
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Post by gofaster88 on Apr 25, 2024 7:47:14 GMT -5
The one major thing is that schools give the foreign players scholarships. If the money is coming from a school that takes in money from taxes that seems wrong to me. Neither the foreign player(s) nor their families are not paying taxes, therefore they shouldn't receive scholarships that are federally/state funded.
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Post by vinnielopes on Apr 25, 2024 9:09:26 GMT -5
It’s not the job of college coaches to build up USA Volleyball. These folks are getting paid to field the best team possible within the rules of the NCAA.
If USA Volleyball doesn’t want American kids losing college roster sports to international players, invest more in boys’ youth volleyball.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 25, 2024 10:13:27 GMT -5
Hawaii and long beach are going to be bringing in some really strong international players. I think its worth discussing the downsides. 1. Its bad for USA volleyball. Resources and playing time of our top programs are being used to benefit non-US players. 2. It is bad for American players. They lose their spots to international guys. 3. It is not a fair competition. The international players come in way more polished than US recruits. It seems like the European juniors programs are like professional teams. So it is very hard for US players to beat these guys out for spots. Watching film of roure vs sean kelly, roure looks much more polished. 4. It creates a weird arms race. UCSD, UCSB, CSUN are very good programs but with LB and UH each having 5 rockstar international starters going forward they will have to start finding a way to compete for international talent or end up at the bottom of the big west every year. It should not be this way. You should not have to have some connection to some french national team coach or something to run a good program. There are probably more reasons. It makes it feel like a professional sport rather than a college sport but I can't exactly articulate why. I think a rule that you can have 2 non-US citizens per team would be fair. What do you guys think? #1 and screw anybody who takes offense Hawaii & Long Beach can do WHATEVER the heck they want to compete and win National Titles I' so sick of the dismissiveness that the P5s (now P4) might have basically are driving a system where the effeect is to ELIMINATE Long Beach and Hawaii altogether, for whatever rationale anybody associated with those schools wants to come up, that is the effect of current D1 landscape in sports so #2) SCREW those and whereever you came from in regards to Long Beach and Hawaii, just screw you in the entire landscape of what D1 has become, those P4 schools can go screw themselves. Beach has multiple players from the USA on the national teams last few years, so Beach is doing their part, and will continue to do so, and if it upsets someone that Beach is 40% Bulgaria, I can sleep at night. again the UCLAs, Ohio State, Penn States, USCs (USC has been poachng Beach athletes last 5 years) can go F themselves if any of them are gonna lecture Hawaii and Beach about how to run ANYTTHING in D1 sports these days peace |
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Post by james23 on Apr 25, 2024 10:36:03 GMT -5
People just straight up dismissing this argument is funny to me. It’s absolutely talked about in coaching circles and is worthy of a discussion. Every top volleyball league has a foreign player limit.
I see both sides, definitely elevates the game but we’re not far away from a school winning a title starting 5 or 6 foreigners.
It is not the job of ncaa coaches to facilitate USA volleyball but it certainly leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouth besides Hawaii and LBSU fans. But like it’s been mentioned, bringing in foreign players is not new to NCAA sports. Happens all the time in golf for example.
To the people saying “what should Hawaii do?” Lol the exact same “get good” argument can be thrown back and used to say “Get better at recruiting”.
I believe we’re about to enter a lil bit of a down generation for USA volleyball so it wil be very interesting to see how this discussion happens over time.
I think it is worth mentioning many “elite” foreigners do not break through on their respective countries teams anyway besides Nikolov and Bulgaria is not the powerhouse it used to be.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 25, 2024 11:18:26 GMT -5
People just straight up dismissing this argument is funny to me. It’s absolutely talked about in coaching circles and is worthy of a discussion. Every top volleyball league has a foreign player limit. I see both sides, definitely elevates the game but we’re not far away from a school winning a title starting 5 or 6 foreigners. It is not the job of ncaa coaches to facilitate USA volleyball but it certainly leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouth besides Hawaii and LBSU fans. But like it’s been mentioned, bringing in foreign players is not new to NCAA sports. Happens all the time in golf for example. To the people saying “what should Hawaii do?” Lol the exact same “get good” argument can be thrown back and used to say “Get better at recruiting”. I believe we’re about to enter a lil bit of a down generation for USA volleyball so it wil be very interesting to see how this discussion happens over time. I think it is worth mentioning many “elite” foreigners do not break through on their respective countries teams anyway besides Nikolov and Bulgaria is not the powerhouse it used to be. sorry, but Big West schools are hanging in by a thread. be careful what you wish for or D1 Volleyball may become D1 Water Polo, Only 4 schools winning NCs, in a fabricated so called 'league' and not much else. it's larger than Volleyball, and if you restrict Long Beach and Hawaii in VB, you drive one more stake in these schools and the possibility they (and other Big West ) schools just give up and join the California CCAA eventually, by the way Big West is ONLY D1 conference sponsoring MVB. the Big West MBB league is being DECIMATED this year with every 1st team player transferring out, adn every top teams rebuilding. Not unique to Big West basketball. BIg West schools didn't create this crap. the big boys did. I'd love to hear Speraw who was giddy about a Big 10 conference, so maybe he does like the water polo model. pointing out LOng Beach and Hawaii is bad in so many ways. St. Mary's is surviving and remaining relevant in MBB for D1 SOLEY by international pipelines. |
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Post by ManapuaSurprise on Apr 25, 2024 11:24:04 GMT -5
People just straight up dismissing this argument is funny to me. It’s absolutely talked about in coaching circles and is worthy of a discussion. Every top volleyball league has a foreign player limit. I see both sides, definitely elevates the game but we’re not far away from a school winning a title starting 5 or 6 foreigners. It is not the job of ncaa coaches to facilitate USA volleyball but it certainly leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouth besides Hawaii and LBSU fans. But like it’s been mentioned, bringing in foreign players is not new to NCAA sports. Happens all the time in golf for example. To the people saying “what should Hawaii do?” Lol the exact same “get good” argument can be thrown back and used to say “Get better at recruiting”. I believe we’re about to enter a lil bit of a down generation for USA volleyball so it wil be very interesting to see how this discussion happens over time. I think it is worth mentioning many “elite” foreigners do not break through on their respective countries teams anyway besides Nikolov and Bulgaria is not the powerhouse it used to be. Leagues are businesses tho. NCAA Volleyball are part of higher education. So unless you can put it into law to limit the amount of foreign enrollment, you have to treat sports the same way. What's next- you can't have a player that doesn't have legal residency in your state? |
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usmnt
Sophomore
Posts: 238
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Post by usmnt on Apr 25, 2024 11:26:15 GMT -5
sorry, but Big West schools are hanging in by a thread. be careful what you wish for or D1 Volleyball may become D1 Water Polo, Only 4 schools winning NCs, in a fabricated so called 'league' and not much else. it's larger than Volleyball, and if you restrict Long Beach and Hawaii in VB, you drive one more stake in these schools and the possibility they (and other Big West ) schools just give up and join the California CCAA eventually, by the way Big West is ONLY D1 conference sponsoring MVB. the Big West MBB league is being DECIMATED this year with every 1st team player transferring out, adn every top teams rebuilding. Not unique to Big West basketball. BIg West schools didn't create this crap. the big boys did. I'd love to hear Speraw who was giddy about a Big 10 conference, so maybe he does like the water polo model. pointing out LOng Beach and Hawaii is bad in so many ways. St. Mary's is surviving and remaining relevant in MBB for D1 SOLEY by international pipelines. NEC also sponsors MVB. They just don't have an auto-bid yet. |
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Post by abelincoln on Apr 25, 2024 11:31:07 GMT -5
2 intl player limit. That’s how it was a while back. Hawaii did fine w their 2 Israeli’s in the 90’s. Who cares how this affects USA vb. Think about how it tweaks hs/club kids that are deserving. As a parent who loves and played vb, I almost wish my kid chose a different sport that provided for more viable opportunities. Men’s vb is unique compared to other ncaa sports because of how small it is. Club and hs vb for boys is growing but where do they even get to go beyond it. If we had as many programs as ncaa golf then I’d probably be unphased by intl players but we don’t. At what point does the hs/club level begin to shrink when parents realize it’s an expensive waste of time trying to vie for 2 walk on spots at 5 schools.
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Post by ManapuaSurprise on Apr 25, 2024 11:39:48 GMT -5
The one major thing is that schools give the foreign players scholarships. If the money is coming from a school that takes in money from taxes that seems wrong to me. Neither the foreign player(s) nor their families are not paying taxes, therefore they shouldn't receive scholarships that are federally/state funded. they cannot have NIL deals due to visa status, so one can argue they need the scholarships more than domestic players who are eligible for NIL |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Apr 25, 2024 11:51:44 GMT -5
2 intl player limit. That’s how it was a while back. Hawaii did fine w their 2 Israeli’s in the 90’s. Who cares how this affects USA vb. Think about how it tweaks hs/club kids that are deserving. As a parent who loves and played vb, I almost wish my kid chose a different sport that provided for more viable opportunities. Men’s vb is unique compared to other ncaa sports because of how small it is. Club and hs vb for boys is growing but where do they even get to go beyond it. If we had as many programs as ncaa golf then I’d probably be unphased by intl players but we don’t. At what point does the hs/club level begin to shrink when parents realize it’s an expensive waste of time trying to vie for 2 walk on spots at 5 schools. I've never bought in to the idea one funds youth VB in order for a schollie.....for any sport not just VB as a parent, if college funding is a reason, then just put that $200 a month for club (or whatever it is) for 14 years in a better fund, and you don't need a schollie. of course, explain that to your kid so I personally think the entire 'target a schollie' mentality won't have any affect on shrinking anything. I think distaste with other sports (football and club basketball or baseball) and simply better enjoyment with VB alone (like happened with Soccer) is going to keep growth going. D1 is so structurally screwed up as to I have little hope for much more D1 VB growt at all |
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