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Post by pull3 on Sept 22, 2024 0:25:56 GMT -5
I believe machines have proven to be more cost-effective than humans.
And more arbitrary. If you think that will resolve the problem, you are crazy.
Before further discussions, are we talking about how to avoid coach challenges?
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Post by tablealgebra on Sept 22, 2024 0:34:07 GMT -5
And more arbitrary. If you think that will resolve the problem, you are crazy.
Before further discussions, are we talking about how to avoid coach challenges?
AI will replace professors before it replaces coaches. Not sure if either will happen, but just saying... In terms of challenges, volleyball is set to explode and if the NCAA and its constituents realize that they will also realize that the explosion is partially contingent on pace of play, as the new fans who are going to tell their friends about volleyball will concentrate on things like pace of the game to judge how fun it is. To me it would be criminal neglect of an opportunity if all 4 major conferences at the least didn't have a high-res camera system for challenges within a few years ... though they might wait until one of the pro leagues fold (I don't see how both can make it) to try to get some of that stuff at a discount. |
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Post by pull3 on Sept 22, 2024 0:48:28 GMT -5
Before further discussions, are we talking about how to avoid coach challenges?
AI will replace professors before it replaces coaches. Not sure if either will happen, but just saying... In terms of challenges, volleyball is set to explode and if the NCAA and its constituents realize that they will also realize that the explosion is partially contingent on pace of play, as the new fans who are going to tell their friends about volleyball will concentrate on things like pace of the game to judge how fun it is. To me it would be criminal neglect of an opportunity if all 4 major conferences at the least didn't have a high-res camera system for challenges within a few years ... though they might wait until one of the pro leagues fold (I don't see how both can make it) to try to get some of that stuff at a discount.
Did you reply the wrong person? It sounds like you are agreeing with me.
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Post by tablealgebra on Sept 22, 2024 11:55:51 GMT -5
AI will replace professors before it replaces coaches. Not sure if either will happen, but just saying... In terms of challenges, volleyball is set to explode and if the NCAA and its constituents realize that they will also realize that the explosion is partially contingent on pace of play, as the new fans who are going to tell their friends about volleyball will concentrate on things like pace of the game to judge how fun it is. To me it would be criminal neglect of an opportunity if all 4 major conferences at the least didn't have a high-res camera system for challenges within a few years ... though they might wait until one of the pro leagues fold (I don't see how both can make it) to try to get some of that stuff at a discount.
Did you reply the wrong person? It sounds like you are agreeing with me.
Why does my reply have to be an argument? |
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 22, 2024 14:11:32 GMT -5
Probably add it to the ticket charge!
I believe machines have proven to be more cost-effective than humans.
I'm not sure what you mean by a machine. I don't see how any "machine" would make most vball calls given how judgement based they are. Lifts? Out of rotation? Mid line violations? Line calls are an exception, but those "machines" are not cheap if you take into account the enormous investment in cameras and sensors needed and continuing licensing fees, which tend to be large for targeted low-volume applications. And every single type of call would need it's own targeted "machine." They are not similar problems. |
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sonic
Sophomore
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Post by sonic on Sept 22, 2024 19:02:22 GMT -5
The SEC is using high frame rate Hawkeye cameras, why can’t the NCAA mandate that in order to have CRS? There were multiple long challenges in this match that resulted in an inconclusive call. In this day and age, that’s unacceptable. Our phone cameras/tablet cameras have a higher frame rate than the ones being used for CRS.
And, train the officials better on how to use the technology. Place of play and getting the calls right matter to grow the game.
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Post by pull3 on Sept 23, 2024 4:00:07 GMT -5
I believe machines have proven to be more cost-effective than humans.
I'm not sure what you mean by a machine. I don't see how any "machine" would make most vball calls given how judgement based they are. Lifts? Out of rotation? Mid line violations? Line calls are an exception, but those "machines" are not cheap if you take into account the enormous investment in cameras and sensors needed and continuing licensing fees, which tend to be large for targeted low-volume applications. And every single type of call would need it's own targeted "machine." They are not similar problems.
Those things are just programming. AI can analyzes things nowadays. In case it sounds abstract to you, comparing the logic with self-driving technology, volleyball rules can't be more complicated than driving on a road?
Yes, it is a huge investment, but it can save you salaries of several judges, AND the of money of enormous amount of officials sitting behind the scoring table. And the most important and precious part is: Fairness.
We can start with the richest schools in the richest conference.
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Post by maigrey on Sept 23, 2024 8:11:57 GMT -5
The SEC is using high frame rate Hawkeye cameras, why can’t the NCAA mandate that in order to have CRS? There were multiple long challenges in this match that resulted in an inconclusive call. In this day and age, that’s unacceptable. Our phone cameras/tablet cameras have a higher frame rate than the ones being used for CRS. And, train the officials better on how to use the technology. Place of play and getting the calls right matter to grow the game. One word: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
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Post by nakedcrayon on Sept 23, 2024 8:36:21 GMT -5
Also the SEC has for conference play a dedicated replay third official on site
So a R1 R2 R3 LJ1 LJ2 and replay worker and as stated before uses Hawkeye and should be faster making decisions if all cameras are working properly
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sonic
Sophomore
Posts: 107
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Post by sonic on Sept 23, 2024 8:50:34 GMT -5
The SEC is using high frame rate Hawkeye cameras, why can’t the NCAA mandate that in order to have CRS? There were multiple long challenges in this match that resulted in an inconclusive call. In this day and age, that’s unacceptable. Our phone cameras/tablet cameras have a higher frame rate than the ones being used for CRS. And, train the officials better on how to use the technology. Place of play and getting the calls right matter to grow the game. One word: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I understand what you are saying, but in the P4 conferences, that’s not an excuse anymore. They went cheap with DVSport because basketball already had it, and then basketball got better cameras. It’s a matter of simply caring about the product you put on the floor. The B1G has the best VB product right now, and it’s laughable when challenges take forever and come back inconclusive. |
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Post by swaggyp on Sept 23, 2024 11:50:50 GMT -5
I understand what you are saying, but in the P4 conferences, that’s not an excuse anymore. They went cheap with DVSport because basketball already had it, and then basketball got better cameras. It’s a matter of simply caring about the product you put on the floor. The B1G has the best VB product right now, and it’s laughable when challenges take forever and come back inconclusive. If only there were a way to simultaneously improve the pace of play _while_ cutting costs to individual athletic departments. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 23, 2024 12:29:05 GMT -5
Important to separate the issues. The B1G is trapped in a contract, apparently, that prevents them from using Hawkeye, but Hawkeye is only for line calls. This match ended on an extended review of a line call but what's taking most time is everything else - net calls, touches, etc. Better cameras would help resolve that problem, but apparently a uniform upgrade requirement was voted down by teams in conference? Once you fail to set a standard, it becomes subject to the whimsy of the individual ADs.
All that said, some of the calls were just taking way too long given the evidence in front of the officials. I was often felt it was pretty clear what the call should be. I don't know if it's because they are not accessing video quickly enough, refs being too cautious, or something else about the process, but it needs to get faster.
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