Definition of "ELITE"

[Deleted]

Go back 10 years. Make it simple. 1996-2005.

Pretty sure they had 64 teams in 1996. If not, they did have the same # of rounds. Some teams just got a bye.

[roy]

ruffda said:

Go back 10 years. Make it simple. 1996-2005.

Pretty sure they had 64 teams in 1996. If not, they did have the same # of rounds. Some teams just got a bye.

I think 1995 would be a better year to start at. That is when the NCAA switched over from actual regional breakdown to seeding teams. Before 1995, groups of teams were always in the same bracket. I believe Florida, Nebraska, and Texas would typically be in the same bracket, while Hawaii, Pacific, UCSB, and Long Beach were in the same bracket. Usually 3 Pac 10 teams would end up on the same bracket with one Pac 10 team (usually Stanford or UCLA) being sent into a “Big 10” bracket with teams like Penn State or Ohio State always aligned with each other.

[mdogg56]

Using IdahoBoy's formula, here are the last five years:

17.6 USC
17.6 Stanford
15.5 Nebraska
14.6 Florida
13.6 Hawaii
12.7 Washington
12.6 Minnesota
11.8 UCLA
11.6 Arizona
11.1 Wisconsin
10.8 Penn State

[IdahoBoy]

Ok, through 1996, and I threw in Tennessee just so they knew how far off they really were from Elite.

		School	Points
1		Stanford	104.5
2		Nebraska	93
3		Florida	84.1
4		USC	83.6
5		Hawaii	78.1
6		Penn State	77.3
7		Long Beach State	64.3
8		Wisconsin	61.1
9		UCLA	58.9
11		Minnesota	56.6
11		Arizona	50.7
12		Washington	44.8
13		UCSB	41.5
14		Texas A&M	41.2
15		Ohio State	39.2
16		Pacific	37.3
17		Texas	37.3
18		BYU	37
19		Pepperdine	36.5
20		Colorado State	34.8
NR		Tennessee	19.2

[IdahoBoy]

mdogg56 said:

Using IdahoBoy's formula, here are the last five years:

17.6 USC
17.6 Stanford
15.5 Nebraska
14.6 Florida
13.6 Hawaii
12.7 Washington
12.6 Minnesota
11.8 UCLA
11.6 Arizona
11.1 Wisconsin
10.8 Penn State

Hmm... the last five years is this according to my charts:

	School	Points
1	Stanford	63
2	USC	57.6
3	Nebraska	53
4	Florida	48.6
5	Hawaii	45.6
6	Minnesota	42.6
7	UCLA	39.9
8	Washington	37.8
9	Arizona	33.2
11	Penn State	31.3
11	Wisconsin	29.1
12	Long Beach State	28.3
13	Pepperdine	24
14	Ohio State	22.7
15	Texas A&M	22.2
16	Pacific	20.8
17	Texas	20.8
18	Colorado State	18.3
19	Tennessee	18.2
20	UCSB	16
21	BYU	12

[GatorVball]

Florida really needs to win it all one of these days. This label of best program to have never won it all needs to go. If not just for Florida, but for a female coach to win it all as well.

[JT]

ruffda said:

Go back 10 years. Make it simple. 1996-2005.

Pretty sure they had 64 teams in 1996. If not, they did have the same # of rounds. Some teams just got a bye.

Same number of rounds, but not 64 teams.

In 96, I'm pretty sure there were only 48 teams. We played Central Florida at home, and then went on to play (and lose) the next weekend at Long Beach.

In 97, I'm almost positive there were 56 teams. We played and beat Miami of Ohio out in Provo Utah, while BYU got a first roung bye, and then beat us in the second round.

And I think it went up to 64 teams in 1998. I know that by 1999, there were 64 teams in the tourney.

[beachman]

I could not put washington into "Elite" program status, yet!

[IdahoBoy]

beachman said:

I could not put washington into "Elite" program status, yet!

They are in eligible for two more years at current rate of NCAA success.... then they become eligible.

[SaltNPepper]

I like all this number crunching, but at some point you'll have to draw the line somewhere. Just how many "Elite" programs seems like a good number for a 320 team division.

1% of the teams? 5% of the teams? 10% of the teams? 1% is too low, right? 10% is definitely to high. Maybe 5%? That would be about 16 teams. That seems too high too. The 8 for "Elite 8" doesn't really sound too bad. That would mean roughly 2.5% of the teams would be the Elite teams. Now if this was DI football with only around 100 teams, 2 or 3 Elite programs wouldn't be enough. Something like 10 to 20 seems more likely. So my 2.5% is probably just hogwash. (man it's been a long time since I used that word)

The number might fluctuate a bit from year to year as some new teams are accepted as having joined the group (I think Washington has) or other teams really have dropped away for the top tier - like maybe LBSU though it might be only a temporary drop from that status. I think what ever formula you use you will find that most people probably would feel somewhere between a half dozen and maybe 10 teams have that Elite status. And it's probably going the be the teams that usually are considered title contender each year. And teams that on a off or rebuilding year are generally still at top 25 team. And as mentioned, having won a national title sure does help, although as in Florida's case I don't think it is an absolute requirement.

[StuffU]

I think the distinction comes with the term "program" versus "team".

The more historical the formula, the more you are referring to the program.

The less the span of time that is covered, the more it seems you can refer to an elite "team".

After all, no one would consider the 97 Hawaii "team" elite. But the level of talent and success was much greater in all other years, making the "program" elite.

[Wolfgang]

Funny thing about this word "elite" -- it's very popular, understandably so.

There's an elite.com, so that can't be used. Crap!

There's a whole bunch of volleyball clubs which use the word "elite" -- Michigan, Illini, Pittsburgh, Texas, Amarillo, etc. And then's there's Club Elite.

Also, if one were to become a member of the "Elite" of college volleyball, can they then be removed if they no longer maintain their elite status? Usually, once a member, always a member (with some exceptions).

Okay, I have to stop because I've bored myself again...

[gobigred]

This entire thread was one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a long time.

I don't think you can put numbers into this, despite IB's best effort, it has to be subjective, and I think we all know deep down inside which teams are the "elite" of college volleyball. Stanford, UCLA, USC, Nebraska, Penn State, Florida, Hawaii...etc. There are probably more, but any teams thereafter would be up for debate.