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Post by IdahoBoy on Apr 2, 2007 13:42:14 GMT -5
Holy Sh$%#@! First thought I had. Mine was "hey, why is this doctor spanking me!?" oh... yeah, about the play, pretty amazing save to keep it in play.
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Post by fingrbustr on Apr 2, 2007 14:20:01 GMT -5
Thank you, VolleyTX. Players that don't line up around the block correctly drive me insane.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 2, 2007 14:26:49 GMT -5
Just watched the clip. The libero wasn't out of position, Skynard. She was lined up to take a hard-driven ball, right off of the MB's left shoulder. Any deeper and she'd be giving up a steeper-driven shot down (which pro's can do). She was completely lined up correctly -- her MB took away the corner shot, she was right where she should have been. Not very hard to see. Her one-arm stab was even done w/ a bit of a jump, for more extension...if she was farther back that deflection would've whizzed right past her reach. She wasn't covering a tip...she was in position to cover a bomb. Still, a great series of heads-up plays made by all. It looked to me that she was already upright rather than doing a "bit of a jump" and she didn't appear to even be facing the direction of the attack when she eventually made her "one-arm stab" at the ball. Isn't it also generally easier to move forward than backward so being in low and in position for the hard attack as Skynard implies would leave other more appropriate players able to cover the tip or leave her in a better position to make a better play on the attack?
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 14:45:19 GMT -5
Just watched the clip. The libero wasn't out of position, Skynard. She was lined up to take a hard-driven ball, right off of the MB's left shoulder. Any deeper and she'd be giving up a steeper-driven shot down (which pro's can do). She was completely lined up correctly -- her MB took away the corner shot, she was right where she should have been. Not very hard to see. Her one-arm stab was even done w/ a bit of a jump, for more extension...if she was farther back that deflection would've whizzed right past her reach. She wasn't covering a tip...she was in position to cover a bomb. Still, a great series of heads-up plays made by all. Your reading comprehension is absolutely as bad as your pseudo-volleyball expertise. She was NOT in the correct position defensively. She was not anywhere NEAR her correct position. In my earlier post I said NOTHING about her being "deeper" (or even "shallower"). My post said she should have been positioned ON THE PERIMETER of the court and not so far INTO THE COURT. And I already said her defensive responsibility was NOT to cover the tip. There isn't a credible volleyball coach in the world that advocates standing straight up and down to play defense as the ball is being hit by the attacker (which is what star libero is doing in this clip). Nor is there a volleyball coach that says jumping up and taking a stab at a ball when you were already that far out of position is a good defensive play. Is that play a spectacular volleyball play? Yes, on the third contact. Is it a good volleyball play? Nope, because the libero screwed it up in the first place by playing bad and out-of-position defense.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 14:52:08 GMT -5
For further clarification, the libero should have been positioned closer to the left sideline. Had she been in the correct position and defensive posture, she would have had an easy play passing the ball off the block with a normal platform.
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Post by fingrbustr on Apr 2, 2007 14:55:16 GMT -5
Yikes. You need help, man. Helping anger managment is not my forte.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 14:55:27 GMT -5
Blah. The Libero messed up the play in the first place, which caused the other two players to make a miraculous save just to get the ball back over. In an alternative (and better) reality, the libero wouldn't not have been playing defense that far into the court, would have been in a better defensive posture, and would not have made a one-arm stab at that ball coming off the block. She would have made a good defensive play on the ball coming off the block and gotten it somewhere back into the court for the setter to set somebody and hopefully get an attack on that transition play. But, hey, that's just me. Fenerbahce, the opposing team, tends to tip a lot which could be why the L would have been that far into the court... The defensive team in that rally is playing Slide defense (or in the USA scheme "Blue" defense) where the off-blocker slides over to cover tip. In this case, the LF blocker has moved into the center of the court near the attack line for the tip.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 14:57:23 GMT -5
Yikes. You need help, man. Helping anger managment is not my forte. Actually, I don't need any help. But you do need to stop passing yourself off as a volleyball expert when you give fundamentally unsound commentary.
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Post by mervynpumpkinhead on Apr 2, 2007 15:06:09 GMT -5
Yikes. You need help, man. Helping anger managment is not my forte. Actually, I don't need any help. But you do need to stop passing yourself off as a volleyball expert when you give fundamentally unsound commentary. I don't know how anyone could claim they know exactly what's going on in so short a clip, nor declare the defense bad or good, when you can't see the whole court, have no idea what the scouting report was, or the tendencies of the hitter. You can't make any real judgement of this clip, other than it was a wild play.
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Post by VolleyTX on Apr 2, 2007 15:07:01 GMT -5
Ok.... first off.... REALLY GOOD DEFENSE... is more Art than Science. Nothing ticks me off more than those players/coaches who think that in any given situation there is a definitive position to play defense. When I play defense, I am reading the block... I am reading the player's approach.... I am reading the hitter's shoulder. I may start off in a more "coached" position, but then I move based on some of the things above.
The only reason why the libero "looked" out of position.... was because the ball got knocked off the block. The hitter was aiming for the back opposite corner.... which is why the libero moved more toward the middle of the court. I don't know where you get that she was covering the tip. The ball ended up a bit to her left and higher than she expected because it went off the block..... something no one can anticipate well.
If that hit had not hit the block, she would have been in a very good position to dig that ball. If she was over by the sideline, she wouldn't have even had a play on the ball.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 15:20:31 GMT -5
Ok.... first off.... REALLY GOOD DEFENSE... is more Art than Science. Nothing ticks me off more than those players/coaches who think that in any given situation there is a definitive position to play defense. When I play defense, I am reading the block... I am reading the player's approach.... I am reading the hitter's shoulder. I may start off in a more "coached" position, but then I move based on some of the things above. The only reason why the libero "looked" out of position.... was because the ball got knocked off the block. The hitter was aiming for the back opposite corner.... which is why the libero moved more toward the middle of the court. I don't know where you get that she was covering the tip. The ball ended up a bit to her left and higher than she expected because it went off the block..... something no one can anticipate well. If that hit had not hit the block, she would have been in a very good position to dig that ball. If she was over by the sideline, she wouldn't have even had a play on the ball. Wrong. Although floor defense is dynamic and situation-driven, there are still sound fundamental principles that govern successful outcomes defensively. Amorphous Mass of Mediocrity alluded to one of the principles, which is to play the ball in front of you. One of the prevailing coaching keys that alot of coaches are emphasizing today is to "play defense back into the court" which means orienting yourself so that you are facing back into the court and towards your teammates when making defensive plays. One of Bill Neville's old coaching books called this playing "on-help" defense. A second principle is to move while the set is in the air travelling towards the attacker, and then stop/set at contact into a low defensive posture. The libero should not have gotten stuck that far into the court and behind the MB's block shadow. She should have been to the left of the block shadow covering the cross-court attack. As it is she is partially encroaching on the defensive responsibility of the center-back defender who is covering the seam and the high/deep rebound off the block. Finally, regardless of whether the ball had been a clean hit past the block or partially deflected off the block as it was in this situation, it still ended up in Zone 5, which is precisely where the libero (playing left-back) should have been. As it is, she gets stuck halfway between Zones 5 and 6 and had to reach out and stab a ball that she could have easily gotten to with a platform had she been positioned correctly. It is correct to say that all great defensive players have the innate ability to read the situation and adjust their position accordingly to put themselves in the best position to make a defensive play. However, none of these great defensive players would say that standing behind a block or encroaching on another player's area-of-responsibility is the best defensive play to make in any situation.
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Post by Gorf on Apr 2, 2007 15:25:22 GMT -5
If the libero had been on the perimeter as Skynard suggests then she would have had the need to make a last minute stab at the ball after it was touched and she would still have been in position to make a play on the hard attack if the ball wasn't touched by the block.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 2, 2007 15:28:22 GMT -5
If that hit had not hit the block, she would have been in a very good position to dig that ball. If she was over by the sideline, she wouldn't have even had a play on the ball. Uhm...the very fact that the ball hit the block shows that she was standing behind the block in the first place, and not where she should be. Team defense is a combination of the block and backrow defense. The block takes away areas of the court that the hitter does not have available to attack and channels attacks towards defenders. Why would a defender want to stand behind a blocker regardless of whether or not he/she thinks the hitter is going to hit it there? If the hitter hits that shot, it gets blocked, regardless. No one should be playing defense in a spot on the court that the block is taking away in the first place.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 2, 2007 15:46:38 GMT -5
When I think of the Middle East, I think of the bread. Maan alive...can't get any better than the bread there. Even watching a vb clip from Turkey makes me think of bread.
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Post by Phaedrus on Apr 2, 2007 17:06:36 GMT -5
When I think of the Middle East, I think of the bread. Maan alive...can't get any better than the bread there. Even watching a vb clip from Turkey makes me think of bread. I think of the kabobs. YUMMMMMM
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