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Post by lalalaluuuke on May 3, 2004 19:32:28 GMT -5
Shall we look at BYU? ? Alleman (28)I think, same age as JR Batista, Hillman, Moreno, Pessoa so here is 3 foreign players and 1 older player... Alleman is 25. Hillman is 27.
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Post by mvbdad on May 3, 2004 22:33:23 GMT -5
Alleman was a senior at Esperanza High school when Brad Keenan was a Sophomore at Fountain Valley High school.
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Post by VBbeast on May 4, 2004 9:41:45 GMT -5
BYU 3-0 over Lewis. 1v1 middle blocking scheme will not work for Lewis versus Batista, and the OH trio for BYU will prevent the middles getting much help.
LBSU 3-2 over PSU This is the match that could be interesting. PSU will either cave in 3 or it will be a real interesting. People aren't giving PSU a chance here, but they seem to forget PSU has played well in Hawaii, and are athletic enough to present some serious problems for just about anyone. This is the pick I'm least confident about.
BYU 3-1 over LBSU in the final. Too much maturity and playing experience on the BYU side of the net for the youngsters at LBSU. They will play hard, and I'd like to see them win, but I don't see it. It seemed like they cracked when the pressure was on in the MPSF finals, and the pressure will be that much greater in Hawaii.
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Post by DaRookie on May 4, 2004 23:34:56 GMT -5
Flyers in Five. It will be a great match.
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Post by Beachy on May 5, 2004 3:01:21 GMT -5
I don't understand benwhip's question.....are you questioning vballmom's statements or do you wish people would complain about Lewis as well as BYU or do you wish people would not complain about BYU?
It is late but I am confused.....too many numbers, 25, 27, 22, 19(oops, that's not supposed to be there) 23.
I can officially come out against all older players whether at Lewis, BYU , UCLA or even my beloved LBSU. To my knowledge, LBSU has not had these "older" players and that is a factor in my choice of schools to support. Foreign players at the appropriate age range are fine as long as they are not "pros" (which brings a whole other discussion)
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Post by vbact on May 5, 2004 9:37:58 GMT -5
no players should be allowed past an agreed upon age - Can think of NO REASON a 25 year old + should think they have the right to play collegiate level sports. This is suppose to be college level volleyball game, You know the drill Grammer school, High School. College....how is fair is it to a 17/18 year old freshman in college, (in his correct class level) who has studied, pass classes through-out his educational years to have to now compete with a physically developed MAN who is not playing where they belong. If they had a delay in starting college, did not play college ball during your Jr college days, or have another ways to get around the rules...we have a problem with the rules. The rules should be out there for ALL to SEE. The rules need to be clear and consise. Who are the rules protecting?? Hopefully the typical college student, playing a college level sport. Many of these student /atheletes have worked very hard to get this opportunity to play. Many of these atheletes want to go on and play Pro after they complete their college. They should not have to compete with 25++ for court time when they are following the rules, and completing their education in the correct sequence. It is time to take care of USA Atheletes.
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Post by vballguy2001 on May 5, 2004 11:32:09 GMT -5
Don't bag on just old players. Some of these "old" players don't even make an impact. I think if there should be any complaining it should be about the 26 year old sophomores from foreign countries. I think that is something we can all think is dirty. Let's get serious, what were these kids doing in those countries? You know they were playing volleyball. Probably for professional club teams. But to bag on a 25 year old ( and alleman is 25) for taking two years off of school and athletics to go on a religious mission, seems a little over the edge. These kids don't even touch a ball for two years, so there is hardly an advantage here. Of course Hillman is a different story, so we'll leave that for another comment.
Please lay off the mormon kids and focus on the foreign kids. If they are foreign make sure they are the same age as all the other incoming freshman, or sophomores.
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Post by vbact on May 5, 2004 12:28:07 GMT -5
I was not picking on Mormans. I am stating a fact that we have to level the playing field. Simply stated the true Freshman in college does not have a fully developed muscle/bone structure yet, and can not compete fairly against someone who does. The age for a freshman entering college directly from High School is 17/18. Add 4 years eligability - 5 if they Red Shirt. Would make their age 22/23. By picking a 25 yr cut off I still left margin of error--started 1st grade late?? Failed a grade in grammer school... Needed an edge in High School so they played old there to??? There age should override there class level Freshman/Sophmore/Junior/Senior. I agree fully that most of the players in question have beem playing some kind of Volleyball - if they were not how would they have been recruited into such a high level of volleyball?
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Post by vbact on May 5, 2004 12:32:30 GMT -5
TEXTAlso if you noted my last line: "TEXT WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR USA ATHLETES!
to few programs, to few spots ... many players who would love the chance to play at the college level. We need to promote our sport from within..
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Post by midwestfan on May 5, 2004 12:39:21 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, why can't they do their mission after their volleyball eligibily is done? Wouldn't that be the best scenerio for everyone? I'm just asking this because it has been stated many times on this board that it isn't an advantage to the athletes but more of a disadvantage. Is there some kind of rule that prohibits this?
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Post by lalalaluuuke on May 5, 2004 13:23:07 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, why can't they do their mission after their volleyball eligibily is done? Wouldn't that be the best scenerio for everyone? I'm just asking this because it has been stated many times on this board that it isn't an advantage to the athletes but more of a disadvantage. Is there some kind of rule that prohibits this? They are encouraged to go when they are around the age of 19. If they put it off then they have to put off starting their families, which is very important to the LDS people. Occassionally one will play a couple years and then go, but it is rare and just probably won't happen. Like was said earlier though, you don't play ball when you are out there, so in that aspect there is no advantage, but you definitely grow up in a hurry. You'll note that the Honor Code problems BYU has doesn't happen w/ their return missionaries -- usually. They (RM's) do have a level of understanding and maturity that your average 21 year old doesn't.
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Post by PukaPants on May 5, 2004 14:49:45 GMT -5
Trolls Trolls...
Hey, if we can send 17/18 year olds to a stupid war in Iraq, then we can put them on the court to tussle against "older players".
And I'm still laughing that 27 is considered old...sheesh!
Funny what we live in a "youth" culture, where the terms "young and fresh" is forced down our throats by the media, but not so in volleyball.......whine whine whine about "older" players.......
There needs to be more older players......the Logan Toms (young phenoms) are a RARITY.
RAh! Rah! Rah! GO old farts!
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Post by midwestfan on May 5, 2004 14:53:24 GMT -5
They are encouraged to go when they are around the age of 19. If they put it off then they have to put off starting their families, which is very important to the LDS people. Occassionally one will play a couple years and then go, but it is rare and just probably won't happen. Like was said earlier though, you don't play ball when you are out there, so in that aspect there is no advantage, but you definitely grow up in a hurry. You'll note that the Honor Code problems BYU has doesn't happen w/ their return missionaries -- usually. They (RM's) do have a level of understanding and maturity that your average 21 year old doesn't. Red, thank you for your explanation. It helps me understand everything a little better.
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Post by BigBanger on May 5, 2004 16:06:31 GMT -5
no players should be allowed past an agreed upon age - Can think of NO REASON a 25 year old + should think they have the right to play collegiate level sports. This is suppose to be college level volleyball game, You know the drill Grammer school, High School. College....how is fair is it to a 17/18 year old freshman in college, (in his correct class level) who has studied, pass classes through-out his educational years to have to now compete with a physically developed MAN who is not playing where they belong. If they had a delay in starting college, did not play college ball during your Jr college days, or have another ways to get around the rules...we have a problem with the rules. The rules should be out there for ALL to SEE. The rules need to be clear and consise. Who are the rules protecting?? Hopefully the typical college student, playing a college level sport. Many of these student /atheletes have worked very hard to get this opportunity to play. Many of these atheletes want to go on and play Pro after they complete their college. They should not have to compete with 25++ for court time when they are following the rules, and completing their education in the correct sequence. It is time to take care of USA Atheletes. Dude you nailed it on the spot! I wonder if BYU has 26 year old men playing Football on their team? Hmmmmmmm
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Post by PukaPants on May 5, 2004 16:26:15 GMT -5
Ohhh, lets coddle the younger players....... Ohhhh, poor young players..........
Please name 17/18 year old players that immediately made a significant impact in collegiate volleball.
Young players are OVERRATED!
Bring on the 25 to 27 year olds....the ones you call "old"....hahahaha........
If that's old, then I'm Elizabeth Taylor.
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