Ohio Exit Poll

[FreeBall]

I don't buy the point that chunkmonkey seems to be making with the Red/Blue maps. For a particular county to be Red or Blue on the map, all it takes is a simple majority of one. So, by looking at the map, there is no way to tell how heavily either candidate carried any particular part of the country.

The result of the election clearly showed that Bush received the majority of the popular votes this time. However, to say that the country is anything but extremely polarized right now is to oversimplify the facts. Something that this type of map does quite well.

[chunkymonkey]

FreeBall said:

I don't buy the point that chunkmonkey seems to be making with the Red/Blue maps. For a particular county to be Red or Blue on the map, all it takes is a simple majority of one. So, by looking at the map, there is no way to tell how heavily either candidate carried any particular part of the country.

You have a good point ... but USA Today is also reporting that out of over 3,100 counties, Bush carried only 162 with less than 5% of the vote. One simple majority here and another there .... adds up to 3.5 million people.

Other interesting stats ... 60% of eligible population voted ... meaning almost 82 million did not vote.

Let's go back to the red/blue map (this time 2004 . It's not too difficult to conclude that the largest union populations come from blue counties. The highest density of welfare recepients and government workers are also in the blue counties. For Demos to win in 2008, they either need to recognize they are out-of-touch with the majority--becoming more moderate ... or get more people on the government's payroll. ;D

[chunkymonkey]

(R)uffda! said:

John Kerry was no liberal ...he was the moderate

(R) ... I'm nearly speachless.

This is exactly what I'm talking about ... you need to wake up to reality ... no one would say prior to this campaign that Kerry was a moderate. You're only saying that because he's been your guy in this campaign. Evan Bayh (IN) is a moderate. Joe Lieberman is closer to a moderate position. If Kerry is a "moderate," what does it make these two? Right-wingers?

Kerry and Kennedy are twins ... liberal. Add Hilliary to the same group. When the campaign began, the "liberal" press reminded us that not since JFK has America elected a liberal from Massachusetts. (JFK had a more "moderate" record than Kerry.) The closer Kerry got to the election, the more he attempted to look like a moderate.

[Gorf]

chunkymonkey said:

(R) ... I'm nearly speachless.

This is exactly what I'm talking about ... you need to wake up to reality ... no one would say prior to this campaign that Kerry was a moderate. You're only saying that because he's been your guy in this campaign. Evan Bayh (IN) is a moderate. Joe Lieberman is closer to a moderate position. If Kerry is a "moderate," what does it make these two? Right-wingers?

Kerry and Kennedy are twins ... liberal. Add Hilliary to the same group. When the campaign began, the "liberal" press reminded us that not since JFK has America elected a liberal from Massachusetts. (JFK had a more "moderate" record than Kerry.) The closer Kerry got to the election, the more he attempted to look like a moderate.

You're listening to too many of the Biush / Cheney propaganda ads.

Read what FactCheck.Org said about their claims that Kerry's level of being liberal.

www.factcheck.org/article284.html

[Deleted]

This is not a moderate:

Invades another country, pre-emptively (oops! he was wrong, too)

Massive deficits

Expansion of Federal government

Restriction of civil liberties

Increased Federal spending + lowered revenues (see Massive deficits)

Amending the constitution

Moving toward a Theocracy, slowly but surely (blurring separation of Church and State)

I could go on.

I repeat: Kerry was the moderate in this last election.

But, to top it all off, voters clearly decided they prefer "clear stands on issues" to competence. The world is a complex place. Unfortunately, that's just too much for most Americans to handle.

[Lwood]

(R)uffda - give me a break! I can't believe how much stock you have placed on these exit polls. The stupid things couldn't even tell us who won the election!!!

Get a grip brother! We're all going to be okay.

[chunkymonkey]

The said:

Read what FactCheck.Org said about their claims that Kerry's level of being liberal.

www.factcheck.org/article284.html

I don't get it. How does it feel to shoot yourself in your foot? From your own source ...

[glow=red,2,300]The Journal did rank Kerry the most liberal senator for 2003, but it's also true that Kerry missed 37 of the 62 votes on which the ranking was based due to his campaign schedule. So the Journal assigned Kerry a score only on economic policy for that year -- "a perfect liberal score," in fact. That was based on 19 Kerry votes, though he still missed 13 others on economic policy. The Journal didn't rank Kerry's votes on social issues or foreign policy for 2003 because he cast so few votes on those issues, but noted that he "consistently took the liberal view within the Senate" when he did vote on those issues.

Over his entire career, the Journal rates Kerry the 11th most liberal Senator ... (he) was rated #1 for three of the six years: 1986, 1988, and 1990. In each of those years Kerry actually tied for the "most liberal" rating, sharing it with as many as five other senators.[/glow]


Thanks Gorfer for making my point. Maybe Ruffda will learn something. ;D

[chunkymonkey]

(R)uffda! said:

I repeat: Kerry was the moderate in this last election.

But, to top it all off, voters clearly decided they prefer "clear stands on issues" to competence.

Ruffda, you had a typo ... I corrected it for you.

[glow=red,2,300]But, to top it all off, voters clearly decided they prefer "clear stands on issues" to incompetence. [/glow]

[chunkymonkey]

(R)uffda! said:

I repeat: Kerry was the moderate in this last election.

Here's the National Journal's ranking of "liberal" senators. This is based on their lifetime rating, since being in office. (Year the senator began serving ... or voting as a liberal.) Notice that Liebermann is #40 and Bayh is #42. Ted Kennedy (#5) scored 88.6 ... Boxer (#6) scored 88.5.

Where is Kerry ... uhhh ... 2.9 pts. under Kennedy, 1.8 pts. above Hilliary ... and 23.7 pts. above Bayh. I think that means ... he's a liberal ... not a moderate!

1. Mark Dayton, D-Minn. (2000) 90.3
2. Paul Sarbanes, D-Md. (1976) 89.4
3. Jack Reed, D-R.I. (1996) 89.3
4. Jon Corzine, D-N.J. (2000) 88.8
5. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass. (1962) 88.6
6. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. (1992) 88.5
7. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa (1984) 87.6
8. Richard Durbin, D-Ill. (1996) 87.3
9. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J. (1982) 86.2
10. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. (1974) 86.0
11. John Kerry, D-Mass. (1984) 85.7
12. Carl Levin, D-Mich. (1978) 85.5
13. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. (2000) 83.9
14. Patty Murray, D-Wash. (1992) 83.8
14. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich. (2000) 83.8
16. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md. (1986) 82.4
16. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. (1998) 82.4
18. Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii (1990) 82.0
19. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash. (2000) 81.0
20. Russell Feingold, D-Wis. (1992) 80.0
21. Ron Wyden, D-Ore. (1996) 79.8
22. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn. (1980) 78.9
23. Tom Daschle, D-S.D. (1986) 78.8
24. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va. (1984) 77.3
25. Joseph Biden, D-Del. (1972) 76.6
25. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii (1962) 76.6
27. John Edwards, D-N.C. (1998) 75.7
28. Tim Johnson, D-S.D. (1996) 74.0
29. Herb Kohl, D-Wis. (1988) 73.0
30. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. (1992) 70.9
31 Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M. (1982) 70.7
32. Max Baucus, D-Mont. (1978) 70.1
33. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D. (1992) 67.8
34. Bill Nelson, D-Fla. (2000) 67.3
35. Harry Reid, D-Nev. (1986) 65.3
36. Thomas Carper, D-Del. (2000) 65.0
37. Kent Conrad, D-N.D. (1986) 64.7
37. Bob Graham, D-Fla. (1986) 64.7
39. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va. (1958) 64.3
40. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn. (1988) 64.1
41. Mary Landrieu, D-La. (1996) 63.2
42. Evan Bayh, D-Ind. (1998) 62.0
43. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark. (1998) 60.3
44. Mark Pryor, D-Ark. (2002) 60.2
45. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C. (1966) 58.1
46. John Breaux, D-La. (1986) 53.2
47. Ben Nelson, D-Neb. (2000) 48.5
48. Zell Miller, D-Ga. (2000) 35.0

[Gorf]

midwestfan said:

What does his tirade have to do with moral character?

I guess its obviously beyond you.

There is no moral character involved in putting someone down and cussing / swearing at them. Since they generally make their moral values claims based on Biblical references / content, I certainly don't recall God making statements that alluded to swearing, putting people down, calling people derogatory names, and that sort of thing as being being approved of or exhibiting anything remotely like moral values.


Its like voting for an amendment against gay marriages because in the Bible "God says its an abomination" but ignorinig the fact that God condemns heterosexual sex roughly 100 times more often than homosexual sex.

Or speaking out with righteous indignation against gays because of Biblical claims while conveniently forgetting the many other things that they do in their own lives that the Bible also condemns.

[Gorf]

chunkymonkey said:

I don't get it. How does it feel to shoot yourself in your foot? From your own source ...

[glow=red,2,300]The Journal did rank Kerry the most liberal senator for 2003, but it's also true that Kerry missed 37 of the 62 votes on which the ranking was based due to his campaign schedule. So the Journal assigned Kerry a score only on economic policy for that year -- "a perfect liberal score," in fact. That was based on 19 Kerry votes, though he still missed 13 others on economic policy. The Journal didn't rank Kerry's votes on social issues or foreign policy for 2003 because he cast so few votes on those issues, but noted that he "consistently took the liberal view within the Senate" when he did vote on those issues.

Over his entire career, the Journal rates Kerry the 11th most liberal Senator ... (he) was rated #1 for three of the six years: 1986, 1988, and 1990. In each of those years Kerry actually tied for the "most liberal" rating, sharing it with as many as five other senators.[/glow]


Thanks Gorfer for making my point. Maybe (R)uffda! will learn something. ;D

Its awful convenient of you to do the typical political thing of not mentioning the entire article.

Here's a nice piece you left out:

"Other analyses put Kerry farther down the list of liberals. Political science professor Keith T. Poole analyzed 379 roll call votes from 2003 (essentially all votes except those that were unanimous or nearly so). Poole rated 21 senators more liberal, and had Kerry tied with six others for the next place. Based on that, Kerry tied for number 24-1/2.

Poole has been using his method for years. In an analysis of House and Senate voting from 1937-2002, Kerry ranked 478th most liberal out of 3,320 persons who have served in Congress during that time.

Poole concluded that Kerry is "a bit" more liberal than the typical Democratic House or Senate member over the past seven decades, but not an "extreme" liberal.

[chunkymonkey]

The said:

Here's a nice piece you left out:

"Other analyses put Kerry farther down the list of liberals. Political science professor Keith T. Poole analyzed 379 roll call votes from 2003 (essentially all votes except those that were unanimous or nearly so). Poole rated 21 senators more liberal, and had Kerry tied with six others for the next place. Based on that, Kerry tied for number 24-1/2.

Poole has been using his method for years. In an analysis of House and Senate voting from 1937-2002, Kerry ranked 478th most liberal out of 3,320 persons who have served in Congress during that time.

Poole concluded that Kerry is "a bit" more liberal than the typical Democratic House or Senate member over the past seven decades, but not an "extreme" liberal .

No ... you still don't get it. What word is repeated 5x?
Answer: "Liberal."

How many times is Kerry referred to as a "moderate"? Answer: 0.

Kerry is a liberal ... tied for #22 on Poole's list! Among the top 15% of liberals during the past seven decades.

I would think you and (R)uffda! would be proud of that. Instead ... you can't admit it.

[Deleted]

I have nothing against liberals. I am a liberal.

John Kerry is not a liberal. Sorry.

[Barefoot In Kailua]

(R)uffda! said:

John Kerry is not a liberal. Sorry.

That is like saying Kim Jong Il isn't a madman. You are wrong (R)uffda. Kerry is as liberal as one can get.

I think you're just trying to distance yourself from him because he lost. Be true (R)uffda my man, be true.