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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 13, 2004 4:36:57 GMT -5
I guess that is where we differ I think the US has it's finger on the trigger of the gun right now. I think it might be in their better interest to give Iraq some space, let it develop its own identity, and not riskt anti-US sentiment. I think staying involved right now might do more harm than good, for both of our countries. America, because it is costing troops their lives, Iqaq because I think it is increasing national resentment towards our country and pushing them away from the idea of a democracy.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 13, 2004 4:45:51 GMT -5
I think the American administration does not want Iraq to fall under a totalitarian regime. The Taliban was removed from power in Afghanistan. America doesn't need a new group seizing power in Iraq.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 13, 2004 4:56:57 GMT -5
I still think they're kicking the soccer ball in the wrong direction. Someone fishes swim harder against the current. I think Iraq is one of those places.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2004 8:17:23 GMT -5
BiK, you are absolutely correct. (What's that saying about a broken clock?) The U.S. cannot just up and leave. Now that we have messed things up royally, we owe it to the Iraqi people to help them.
However, if we try to do it alone, we are doomed to failure.
Bush, as always, is in way over his head. Let's just hope things do not reach an irreparable state before we all have the chance to throw his ass out of office.
I repeat: The man has failed at EVERYTHING he has done in his life.
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Post by islandgirl on Apr 13, 2004 9:31:42 GMT -5
Plus, he dresses funny.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 13, 2004 13:17:11 GMT -5
BiK, you are absolutely correct. I repeat: Kerry has failed at EVERYTHING he has done in his life. I'm not voting for the bum. I should have listened to you earlier. Not only are you intelligent, you're quite the looker. It took you long enough to realize that I was right all along. Welcome aboard! ;D Btw, I don't appreciate the flattering commentary.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2004 13:48:13 GMT -5
I am such an ass. Don't listen to a word I say. Why, I'd even stoop so low as to misquote someone! It's OK. You are forgiven.
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Post by sIsam on Apr 14, 2004 5:30:11 GMT -5
They won't get an Islamic state. American troops aren't dying so a breeding ground for terrorist and jihadists can be established. PLEASE STOP EQUATING ISLAM AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH ISLAM WITH TERROR!!!!! Not every Islamic or Muslim country are supportive of terror nor is Islam as a religion. I think this is just the US's way of justifying being there. American troops are dying and I feel sorry for them. However, they've no business being there in the first place and what good is their being there doing??? The USA screwed up big time by aligning themselves with Kurds and alienating the other factions at the beginning. They're now paying for it. I hate war I hate terror I hate innocent people dying (no matter from which country and including soldiers at times...)
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 14, 2004 13:32:29 GMT -5
PLEASE STOP EQUATING ISLAM AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH ISLAM WITH TERROR!!!!! Do you see people commiting acts of terror against innocents in the name of Christianity, Buddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Confucianism, or Taosim? I know the majority of Muslims are good and peaceful people but the fact of the matter is those that hijacked and flew planes into the World Trade Center killing thousands of INNOCENT people!!! were Islamic extremists. Where are the condemnation by Muslims towards these types of acts? The Iranian, Syrian, and Saudi governments support these people. I'll stop equating Islam to terror when the Iranian, Syrian, and Saudi Governments stop funding those who kill innocent people in the name of Islam. It's one thing to have a beef with a Country. It's another thing to kill it's civilians who really have no say in Government policy. America didn't go into Iraq to establish democracy, it went into Iraq to eliminate what it viewed as threat. In a post 9/11 America, proaction is better than inaction. However, what we do have now is a mess in Iraq with different factions trying to force the Americans to leave before the June transfer of the Country. I think the Bush administration did a poor job of planning the post Saddam era and now American troops are being killed because of it. The whole concept of trying to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people was incredibly naive and stupid. The American leadership needs to stop dicking around and let the American troops do what they were trained to do in pacifying the insurgency with overwhelming force, and insuring the transfer of power. Then The American leadership needs to bring the troops home to their families and leave Iraq to the Iraqi people. I'm sorry if what I say offends you, but I've always been a straight shooter. Right or wrong it's how I feel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2004 14:22:23 GMT -5
Do you see people commiting acts of terror against innocents in the name of Christianity, Buddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Confucianism, or Taosim? Hmmm. Seems like it happens all the time. OK. Maybe not Confuciansim. I agree with you here. I sure would like to see/hear more Islamic leaders condemning the terrorists. Hmmm. Guess you haven't been listening to your leader. Even last night he stressed we are there to establish democracy. If it's the RIGHT action. Iraq was NOT the right action. He has made matters worse and fanned the flames of Islamic extremism. So very, very wrong is so many different ways. Except the part about doing a poor job of planning. Overwhelming force may work in the short-term, but not long-term. What happened to all your blather above about innocent people? What about the innocent people of Iraq? And just when exactly were we making an effort to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2004 14:48:48 GMT -5
By the way, I thought Bush presented his case pretty well last night--until he started having to answer questions, of course. But even then he did better than usual.
He's still completely misguided, but at least he was relatively cogent.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 14, 2004 14:54:38 GMT -5
Hmmm. Seems like it happens all the time. OK. Maybe not Confuciansim. Where's the proof that it happens all the time? It may happen on occasion. Like Anti Abortionists may plant bombs at Abortion clinics in the name of Christianity and so on but but the sheer volume of terror attacks perpetrated by those in the name of Islam are far more prevalent than anything any other religious following has mustered. Even you cannot dispute this, it's fact. Oh btw, I'm pro choice! I'm against radical Anti Abortionists who use terror. They should be jailed. I've been listening, I haven't bought it. America may be trying to establish democracy now but that is not why American Troops were sent to Iraq. Another subjective statement. History will decide whether or not it was the right action. Overwhelming force will work to pacify the Country untill the transfer of power. For a long term solution, I'd recommend America sending one of it's Ohio class (Trident ballistic missle) submarines to the Persian Gulf as a deterrent to those who wish to destabilize the Government. I hope their lives will be better in the coming years despite the actions of their fellow Countrymen. Right after American troops entered Baghdad last year. Don't you pay attention?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2004 15:30:41 GMT -5
Where's the proof that it happens all the time? It may happen on occasion. Like Anti Abortionists may plant bombs at Abortion clinics in the name of Christianity and so on but but the sheer volume of terror attacks perpetrated by those in the name of Islam are far more prevalent than anything any other religious following has mustered. Even you cannot dispute this, it's fact. How about "Shock and Awe"? How about Israel? What about Pakistan and India? I think you're being very selective in what you term "terrorism." I do not, for a second, defend the actions of extremists. But that is not an exclusive club for Muslims. Not even close. I will admit that there are WAY too many Islamic leaders preaching violence. This is their stated "noble" objective. The Neo-Cons sincerely believe that they can make Iraq a model for the Middle East. I think their motives for making it a model need to be investigated, but I do believe this is their goal. And I think at least some of them are even happy with Iraq being the battleground for this conflict with Islamic extremists. Better there than in the U.S., goes their thinking. As in "Bring it on." History is proving me right. It will continue to do so. Oh, please. I just have no response when you get all goofy on me like that.
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Post by sIsam on Apr 14, 2004 15:33:36 GMT -5
Do you see people commiting acts of terror against innocents in the name of Christianity, Buddism, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Confucianism, or Taosim? Well it happens - just not as widely publicised.... It's true that some middle eastern countries fund terrorism but please do not forget that the US has done their share of this too. As I said before, terrorism existed WAY WAY WAY before the US decided to make an issue of it after 9/11 and the US public became aware of it. I in no way condemn anyone or any country sponsoring or supporting terrorism. I just don't like the way the US, esp in Prez. Bush era, goes about making its point. I live in Istanbul where a live bomb exploded himself on 9/10 (yes the day before the WTC incident) in Taksim where I was at the time killing many people (and did not happen to be where the bomb exploded just by a stroke of luck...). This did not even make it to CNN's Int'l TV broadcast. That was terror too and many more like this (Turkey gave about 40,000 deaths to terror in the last 10-15 years...) Noone gave a d*** about these... So forgive me if the double standard kind of irks me... Wholeheartedly agreed!!! Please note this holds true for the innocents of the Middle East who have even less of a say in Govt policy than you do in your country or I do in mine...
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 14, 2004 22:44:59 GMT -5
Oh, please. I just have no response when you get all goofy on me like that. Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord; He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword; His truth is marching on. Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on........ www.angelfire.com/wv/angeliquedhumor/images/amereagfl.gif [/img]
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