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Post by the future on Feb 12, 2003 17:03:42 GMT -5
Here is a topic that I have often thought about concerning Men's Volleyball. When i began to play I was blessed by having some great players to emulate and pretend to be. They were unbelievable athletes, the USA Volleyball Thinktank did a great job of promoting them, they inspire many a player and of course the most important....they were successfull.
Right now when I look at professional or National teams of any sport they have Torchbearers...icons...players that are promoted and in turn promote the sport.
WE all know them wheter we are avid followers of Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Tennis, Golf, Hockey, speedskating, womens' volleyball and basketball etc.
I sometimes feel the men are far behind the women...and getting farther back
Am I wrong?
#1. Who will be the next Dusty, Jeff Stork, Pat Powers, Steve Timmons, Paul Sunderland etc. Even a guy like Bob Samuelson had charater and brought attention to our sport. I'm not even talking about the next Karch....because he was the first and maybe only athlete to transcend the sport.
#2 Who will be able to handle this promotion?
#3 Is the USA Volleyball doing enough. Do they or we even realize how important this is?
#4 Am I way off base?
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Post by vballmom on Feb 13, 2003 7:58:19 GMT -5
I agree with you. I think the Men's game needs a lot more exposure. To have more exposure, they someone to pay for it and some good leadership at USA Volleyball.
I also think it gets back to the fact that we need more high school teams and club teams across the country. Some of Men's volleyball woes stem from a lack of participation by a wide audience. The more young men that are excited about volleyball, the more demand there will be for programs when they go to college. If they could even start a club team then that could lead to moving up to DIII and then DII or DI.
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Post by Saruman on Feb 13, 2003 12:54:54 GMT -5
HHHMMM!
In the 1980's which seems to be the focus of the icon's of old, things were a bit different. he sport was coming "online" Club ball was beginning to take a foothold but 85' and some ....some players were going oversees. but primarily the icons which have been mentioned stayed here....trained here.....and played here until those elite players went oversees around 85-87. From that point the doors opened up and more and more players went to play in Switzerland, Belgium, germany, Spain, France and even Italy.
Point #1 - Our National Team an dhow it functions is totally different.
Point #2 - Many more opportunities for players to play oversees and even as close as Puerto Rico - therefore our training team for 3 1/2 years is non-existent and chemistry is out the door.
Point #3 - It cost money to keep the players on the roster. The idea of committment, sacrifice, loyalty which may have worked in the 80's is no longer valid as the players have other opportunities. This was a major point that coaches like Bill Neville tried but foolishly failed at maintaining from the 84' and 88 teams. He(they) did not see the big picture of how men's VB had grown worldwide and the US had not. That is not to say that these young men that we bring out to Colorado (another topic) are selfish or bad. Not the case they are realistic and much more aware of what is out there.
Point #5 We have no idea what our Pro players are doing in Europe/Brazil/Asia therefore we never develop a following or ahtlete to promote to the young guys. We have no FACE that can be associated with USA Men's Volleyball nor have we had one in a while.
Point #6 Ask the club players of today who the their volleyball "hero" is.....some will come up with a college player....most all will not be able to name one National team member.
Point #7 - it is all about the $$$ and how we produce, distribute and promote our players with what little we have.
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Post by Antonio on Feb 13, 2003 13:52:11 GMT -5
It's interesting how people still think that the men's team is at some kind of disadvantage because their best players play in foreign leagues. Check the rosters on those teams. They're full of players from all over the world. All the national teams, including our women's team, deal with the same situation of sending their best players to the pro leagues then getting them back when the international tournament season gets started. Unfortunately, our guys just don't measure up when going up against the best in the world. There's no one on the men's roster who has the "international stature" of Danielle, Logan, Tara, or Keba. USA hasn't produced a great player since Ivie and that was over 10 years ago. Kiraly, Timmons, etc. didn't become the face of USA volleyball until they started winning Gold Medals and world competitions.
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Post by YEAH on Feb 13, 2003 20:39:06 GMT -5
Look at the Italian national team, and the brazilian national team. Almost all the starters for the brazilian national team play in Italy. When championship times rolls around... they meet for a couple of weeks and the chemistry comes along after that.
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Post by BOOKUMDANOALOHA on Feb 13, 2003 21:10:22 GMT -5
The problem is not having Americans playing in Europe, Brazil and Asia. National team members from other countries also go abroad. The big difference is in the GRASS ROOTS program (Junior programs - and not just the Junior National Teams) - and the lack of support and innovative programs by USA VOLLEYBALL. USA Volleyball has failed to operate a successful and innovative program. Which is also compounded by their inability to secure funds from corporate sponsors. One area that needs to be explored is in providing a competitive program year around, for the collegiate players once school is out. They are force to play beach because there are no summer or off season volleyball program or leagues. I think a semi-pro league which is open to professional and amatures is long over due. Puerto Rico has a successful league, I can't understand why the US doesn't have one. An eight team summer/fall league in Southern California coached by collegiate or club coaches in the area. Can you see Coach Sperew coaching a team in OC. Dan Roper coaching UCLA and Pepperdine players. A team made up of San Diego collegiate players. US is missing the boat. It needs to focus on developing players on our own soil. Lastly, move USA Volleyball out of Colorado Springs, CO. Move it to Long Beach State. Then you'll get exposure and corporate sponsorships. That's my thoughts.
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Post by vballmom on Feb 13, 2003 22:00:58 GMT -5
Amen to that!
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Post by opinion on OTC on Feb 13, 2003 22:06:39 GMT -5
Absolutely....DO move the OTC out of Colorado Springs and bring it to the So. Cal area. Long Beach is the perfect place. It's centrally located and with three arenas and gyms to practice and play in it would be perfect. Plus, they could combine some facilities with the US Waterpolo training center at Los Alamitos. All they'd need is a gym I believe. They have dorms and other facilities there. But the LBS dorms work in the summer too. A lot of national team members already live in So. Cal so the costs for transportation to the USA VB would be less. I think the lack of air in that altitude also causes the ball to not behave as it does at sea level.
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Post by Schalk on Feb 14, 2003 3:45:37 GMT -5
I think a semi-pro league which is open to professional and amatures is long over due. Puerto Rico has a successful league, I can't understand why the US doesn't have one. An eight team summer/fall league in Southern California coached by collegiate or club coaches in the area. Can you see Coach Sperew coaching a team in OC. Dan Roper coaching UCLA and Pepperdine players. A team made up of San Diego collegiate players. US is missing the boat. It needs to focus on developing players on our own soil. Lastly, move USA Volleyball out of Colorado Springs, CO. Move it to Long Beach State. Then you'll get exposure and corporate sponsorships. That's my thoughts. What a fantastic idea! The semi-pro part is important. I mostly stay on the women's board, so I'm going to lift the idea and float it over there. I'll give you credit. It won't keep our top players home, but it will improve the level of the college players who participate as well as improve the exposure of the sport. At least in SoCal. Maybe even put a team or two in the Bay Area... USAV's move to Colorado Springs doesn't seem to be saving as much money as they're losing on sponsors since they left SoCal... |
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Post by Saruman on Feb 14, 2003 12:41:13 GMT -5
Very good! this topic is going in the right direction. I did not mean to say tha our National team members must not play overseas....not at all...this is invaluable experience that every National Team encourages. But I would say that we need to have them play more throughout the year. It is my experience that even during the year various National teams gather their players together to play in Regional/International competitions even while in season in Europe. Obvioulsy it is much easier for those European teams to do this. I know that we have also done this a few times but it is my impression that Our National teams are getting together fewer times over the years. I think this also frustrates the Coaching staff.
Factors;
Are we qualifying to even get into to these tournaments: World League - NO
Are we demanding that our players come together to train in the offseason ?
Are the players committed (want) to train together in the offseason ? My guess is no
To move it from Colorado....i am beginning to lean to the yes side. At least for the men, i know afor a fact that it has been a major problem fo some guys who don't have a lot of money to stay there and have a descent time and stay on task. the chance for them to earn supplementary income is nill and on the down time they begin to go nuts. Those who have a bit of money can find ways to entertain themselves but with the help of $$. Those who don't they are relegated to a dorm room in the mountains....gets old after awhile.
But to the previous poster i %100 agree that we all need to push for more grass roots level stuff. Why aren't we having these kids at more camps. We have supplemented Camps with Club. Sorry that isn't doing the trick. Why. There is nothing like total imersion of 3 practices a day, taping, skull sessions, and even as John Speraw mentioned mental imagery.....which I am a big believer in.
Yes we have the HP camps which are nice but I'm not really sold on as they seem to follow the trend of those dreaded money making day camps that have sprung up all over the nation which just have the kids play triples and wash drills all day. BOOO! Weak
But the idea of the HP camps are what we need more of!
We need to bring the best 50 players together have them train together and then let them play....and even bring them to foreign competition. Even take Regional teams from clubs East/Midwest/West to Europe over Easter to play....at the ages of 14-18. We don't do this enough.
Bring back the Sports Festival (dating myself) Olympic Festival that had players like Allen Allen, Uvaldo Acosta, Javier Gaspar, Tom Duke, Brian Ivie, Carlos Briceno, Jeff Stork, Chris Chase, Bob Cvtrilik, Bob Samuelson etc. come together train....beat on each other and them play.
Even back then after JO's a team was picked to train and play in the Pac-Rim Tourneys.
Is this all an impossibility....$$$ and organization is the factor but talk like this will help.
I think my goal is similar to all of you : Gold
But is has to start with the pyramid.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Feb 14, 2003 14:17:23 GMT -5
I don't know about Karch "transcending" the sport. Honestly, I had never hear of him until I got into volleyball, which was incidentally around the Bob Samuelson/Steve Timmons era.
In my mind, the real "torch bearer" for volleyball, at least in recent history, has been Gabrielle Reece. The main reason is that people who know nothing about the sport have heard of her, and get interested because of it. Kind of like what Mia Hamm did for soccer, or Tiger Woods did for golf.
I think the main reason we won't see one for a while is that all the men's players now are cast from the same mold. They seem like carbon copies of eachother, to varying athletic degrees.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 15, 2003 15:25:21 GMT -5
Bring back the Sports Festival (dating myself) Olympic Festival Do you have any idea what the Olympic Festival's cost the US Olympic Committee? I competed in the '94 event in St. Louis. Think what the travel cost alone was for over 4,000 athletes. For volleyball it was good, but in my sport there were only five of us in my event (based on finish at previous National Championship) and one junior. This wasn't really a strong competition. The opening ceremony, marching in under the Arch, etc. was fantastic, and a lot of fun, but . . . There are many ideas in this thread, but I don't see much that can actually be implemented. |
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Post by the future on Feb 15, 2003 16:23:56 GMT -5
Not sure what your sport is but for Volleyball it was a success I have to agree
Personally that idea of Regional/PreOlympic Competition is and was great. I'm not sure that Saruman meant the "Whole" Olympic Festival....which was successful for over 10 years but did lose money.....I think if I'm correct the idea that the competition represented was meant.
Anyway, at this point anything to push more of our younger athletes to play and train throughout the year and compete at a higher level would be welcome.
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Post by the future on Feb 15, 2003 16:27:41 GMT -5
Oh, and by the way, Nobody has answer my main question on who can or will be the spokeperson/commercial athelete for the Men's sport?
The women are in pretty good hands but not the men.
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Post by Charlie on Feb 16, 2003 14:02:19 GMT -5
Oh, and by the way, Nobody has answer my main question on who can or will be the spokeperson/commercial athelete for the Men's sport? This is a good point. I gave it some thought, looking at current National Team and maybe who is in college now, and no one jumps out as a candidate. But sometimes it takes something special happening, particularly at the Olympics, and a star is created. But for this to happen, we would need the men's team to do well at the Olympics for a change. |
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