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Post by leftyvballer23 on Aug 26, 2008 21:25:17 GMT -5
what about tracy stalls in the middle?
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Post by totesmasc4masc on Aug 26, 2008 22:00:30 GMT -5
Few random thoughts: - For some reason I am not completely sold on Klineman. For her height she doesn't possess stellar jumping ability or a very quick arm swing. Unless she dramatically improves I just don't think she is dynamic enough to start for the USA. - The US is not going to be utilizing a 6-2 system. It's much more complicated than it looks and even athletes like Engle are not good enough attackers like the Cuban team's setters/opposites. Setting will be the most difficult and important position that needs to be developed over this quadrennial. From what I've seen from McGinnis I think there is some potential there, but she still has a pretty long way to go.I would like to see a setter who is in the 5-10/11' range who as quick as the smaller setters,but isn't a total liability in the front row. - I'd like to see the USA get an opposite who can hit a variety of different sets. What makes Sheilla from Brazil so spectacular is that she can hit from anywhere and really diversifies the Brazilian offense. Zhou from China also runs a lot of different combos and it puts a lot of stress on the oppositions blockers. I think they did their best with Haneef and trying to turn her into a big gun, but I think she hit her peak and that they should look for someone who is quicker and more varied. I'm not sold on Klineman for post college play either. She's good, but she still has a long way to go. She surely doesn't pound the ball, and her hops aren't anything to brag about. I was more impressed, recently, with Hodge/Fawcette when they were freshmen, and last year Faucette. I wanna add Morrison to the short list of outsides for the 2012 Olympic team. Her last few years in college she was the best all around player on the country. She can play all 6 rotations with high efficiency. She's playing internationally right now, and if she can add some power to her shots (which are already technically very high quality and have good heat) I see her getting a spot over a Klineman or Barboza (if she goes indoor). It's no question that the US strength lie in our all around offense. Akinradewo and Harmotto would make a formidable MB combo, but that's only effective with solid passing. All the prospects for hitters for the 2012 squad previously mentioned don't have the back court skills of Morrison. I don't know about the setting for the 2010 Olympics. Mcginnis would have some years of experience under her belt. Spicer is the most talented.....Thompson would have some years of experience. Those are some recently graduated setters. What has happened to the early 2000 setters? Kamana'o and Tortorello come to mind? They had skills, 2012 is a mystery. There definitely are talented players that are currently in or recently graduated from college, but... I dunno I have to disagree about Klineman. I think we'll see good things from her. She's a pretty fluid 6'4"-6'5" and really came on at the end of the season. Yea, she didn't have much heat, but she got her share of kills, aces, and digs. Faucette was just physically more imposing than her last year. With a year of Stanford's weight system and training with the national team, I'm curious to see how she'll play this year. Morrison- Did she get invited to play this year? She's an interesting prospect, and more like a Logan Tom/April Ross type of player and someone to balance out Glass/Willoughby/Nnamani. I like Harmotto more for her defense. She's a pretty good blocker, and very steady. Her numbers from the JNT were scary good. Her teammate Wilson might have more upside though. She just exploded onto the scene last year. What about A.Glass? She was running a great offense and shooting quick outside sets nicely. Spicer has the innate talent. McGinnis is a bigger presence at the net. And Glass might be the most athletic. Ideally, I'd like to see more of a blocking presence from our OHs with the possibility that Tom might be done. We also need someone to stabilize the passing if Tom leaves. In terms of setting, I love watching Spicer play. I don't know how that translates into the National Team, but she can make great hitters look spectacular (Merriweather) and average hitters look good (the whole UCLA team last year)..just think what she could do if paired with Akinradewo or a hammer like hodge/willoughby/hooker on the outside.
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Post by brybry on Aug 27, 2008 1:31:26 GMT -5
US Women:
setters: I like Berg coming back. But also McGinnis. Glass and Spicer are exciting prospects, but they do not seem to be typical USA setters. The US would really have to adapt their system (which I would like). Maybe Kanoe would be a good fit.
middles: I like Akinradewo, Harmotto, and Wilson a lot. Harmotto is so speedy. I think she could be like a Zhang Ping for Team USA. But not the typical beefy girl in the middle the US has started in the recent years.
opposite: Engle - just because I think she MIGHT be able to pass the ball. She needs a lot of development. Hope Elliot actually makes some progress. Otherwise, Faucette. She looks like an OPP. She swings like an OPP.
outsides: willoughby and glass. I don't know if I see any others in the college ranks. Maybe Hodge. She needs to work on hitting out of system, and yes the passing will need to improve. I believe in her tho, and I believe in Russ Rose's ability to develop talent. Fawcette could be interesting, but again, not sure how she'll develop in Texas.
libero: hmm. I guess Davis. I'd like to see if Ailes can up her level. We need a natural. Someone who rarely has a bad day in the office when it comes to serve receive. I'm not sold on Miyashiro because she had some bad matches.
US Men:
I don't know enough about the college guys. I like Matt Anderson and Rooney a lot. They'll certainly bring a lot of height to the OH position. Would be nice if the US could have a replacement for Priddy. Someone who passes and digs, pounds and is quick as a cat. Anyone out there fit that description?
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 27, 2008 12:26:09 GMT -5
US Women: setters: I like Berg coming back. But also McGinnis. Glass and Spicer are exciting prospects, but they do not seem to be typical USA setters. The US would really have to adapt their system (which I would like). Maybe Kanoe would be a good fit. middles: I like Akinradewo, Harmotto, and Wilson a lot. Harmotto is so speedy. I think she could be like a Zhang Ping for Team USA. But not the typical beefy girl in the middle the US has started in the recent years. opposite: Engle - just because I think she MIGHT be able to pass the ball. She needs a lot of development. Hope Elliot actually makes some progress. Otherwise, Faucette. She looks like an OPP. She swings like an OPP. outsides: willoughby and glass. I don't know if I see any others in the college ranks. Maybe Hodge. She needs to work on hitting out of system, and yes the passing will need to improve. I believe in her tho, and I believe in Russ Rose's ability to develop talent. Fawcette could be interesting, but again, not sure how she'll develop in Texas. libero: hmm. I guess Davis. I'd like to see if Ailes can up her level. We need a natural. Someone who rarely has a bad day in the office when it comes to serve receive. I'm not sold on Miyashiro because she had some bad matches. US Men: I don't know enough about the college guys. I like Matt Anderson and Rooney a lot. They'll certainly bring a lot of height to the OH position. Would be nice if the US could have a replacement for Priddy. Someone who passes and digs, pounds and is quick as a cat. Anyone out there fit that description? When did Miyashiro have bad matches? when she was a freshmen?..... hmmmm I'd cut her some slack in that department....no backrow player was dominant their freshmen campaign. Last year Miyashiro was the most consistent and solid player on the UW squad. I'm not sold on Engle's future prospects at opp. The national team doesn't have to have a player in the position who played that position in college. Plenty of hitters can play opposite. On an ideal volleyball squad the RS hitter is supposed to be the most important attacker on the team. USC and Nebraska utilized the RS attack like a textbook. Most of the other top teams put their best hitters on the LS. Engle certainly is not on the shortlist of best current women attackers. When I evaluate future national team prospects, I look at their performances against teams who also have future national team prospects. Since Engle arrived at Texas she's played full matches against Washington, PSU (3 times), Nebraska (3 times), and USC. In those 8 matches Engle "stood out" in only one of them. She had a NEGATIVE hitting percentage in two of them. Now I'm not bashing Engle, I think she's a fantastic talent, to be able to hit and set, but we are talking about the future of the national team here and we need to be very critical of the people we are talking about. I'm not gonna look at Engle blasting holes into Texas A&M and Baylor, I'm gonna she how she performs against the nations best....and like I said, she "stood" out in only 1 of 8 matches and 2 of the matches were horrendous. She has a lot to prove before she gets my nod for national team (as a hitter). Now Faucette...she's a different story
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Post by OverAndUnder on Aug 27, 2008 16:43:15 GMT -5
If engle is not an international level hitter (as you admit), why not just run a 5-1, and let Murphy hit RS? Because for one, passing. And secondly, passing. Ever see a 6'3" setter try to get under a shank to the left of the court that only gets 6' off the floor? However, she's only a junior, and I think the development window is still wide open. Look at Dani Scott - she rarely tattoos the ball on anyone's toes anymore, but her placement and efficiency are excellent. In the past she has expressed a clear interest in setting, but I don't think there's a college coach in the country that would be willing to give up her attacking, which is easily All-American by NCAA standards.
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 27, 2008 19:55:35 GMT -5
If engle is not an international level hitter (as you admit), why not just run a 5-1, and let Murphy hit RS? Because for one, passing. And secondly, passing. Ever see a 6'3" setter try to get under a shank to the left of the court that only gets 6' off the floor? However, she's only a junior, and I think the development window is still wide open. Look at Dani Scott - she rarely tattoos the ball on anyone's toes anymore, but her placement and efficiency are excellent. In the past she has expressed a clear interest in setting, but I don't think there's a college coach in the country that would be willing to give up her attacking, which is easily All-American by NCAA standards. If it's an issue of passing as well as hitting on the RS, I still would put quite a few LS on the squad before engle. I already posted her performances against top competition the last two years. Not impressed. If it's an issue of having an all around RS hitter, I put a Morrison (played RS freshmen year), Larson, or perhaps Barboza before Engle. She's got room to improve, but when you are talking about making the jump from college to pro, ALL the elite players have the potential and ability to improve, nothing stands out about Engle as a hitter/passer above the other elite outsides.
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Post by bunnywailer on Aug 27, 2008 20:24:10 GMT -5
Getting back to the original point of the thread, it's debatable whether the system of volleyball in the USA produces the best players. At least on the men's side, most of our indoor players played against good international players in the college game, and developed their international game playing in foreign pro leagues against foreign players.
On the beach, Dalhausser definitely is not a product of the USA system, since he was never part of the JO boys to D1 college pipeline. He took an indirect route. Same with Rogers - although he was an All-American setter at UCSB, he had honed his beach game years before that playing on the beach in Santa Barbara with Dax Holdren.
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Post by OverAndUnder on Aug 27, 2008 22:54:34 GMT -5
Because for one, passing. And secondly, passing. Ever see a 6'3" setter try to get under a shank to the left of the court that only gets 6' off the floor? However, she's only a junior, and I think the development window is still wide open. Look at Dani Scott - she rarely tattoos the ball on anyone's toes anymore, but her placement and efficiency are excellent. In the past she has expressed a clear interest in setting, but I don't think there's a college coach in the country that would be willing to give up her attacking, which is easily All-American by NCAA standards. If it's an issue of passing as well as hitting on the RS, I still would put quite a few LS on the squad before engle. I already posted her performances against top competition the last two years. Not impressed. If it's an issue of having an all around RS hitter, I put a Morrison (played RS freshmen year), Larson, or perhaps Barboza before Engle. She's got room to improve, but when you are talking about making the jump from college to pro, ALL the elite players have the potential and ability to improve, nothing stands out about Engle as a hitter/passer above the other elite outsides. It's vaguely amusing how I make some comments about how Engle might be used on the National Team if she were to play there (and I conclude setter or primarily defensive OPP would suit her game). Then the purple-colored glasses kick in and suddenly you're responding as if I'm starting some kind of debate about whether or not she's #1 on the depth chart of big attacking terminators (instead of, you say.... well.... <shuffling your feet>... just randomly picking players out of the air here... maybe someone like, I dunno, Christal Morrison??). Since you recommend "a Morrison", I have to say, looking over some of her performances against top competition the last two years, not impressed. Unless perhaps we're not considering teams like 2006 National Runner-Up Stanford as "top competition". Or maybe 2007 2nd-round BYU isn't "top competition" either. (You may have a point here - what does a bad performance against "medium" competition say?). I'm sure Christal's lackluster performances in those types of matches, like Engle's in the matches you spent time picking out, were all her fault and had nothing to do with a poor performance by her entire team. After all, volleyball is primarily an individual sport as we know it. The same could be said for another of your suggestions, Larson. She has disappeared in a few big matches during her career too. I don't believe any of these three characterizations is true, but that's what happens when you obsessively check back through box scores and find things that fit your theories. The point is that stats sheets, like most data, tell you very little unless you understand their context. Hooker and Faucette are free to rest for three back row rotations and then get hidden in reception and rack up the big kill totals on the left side while Engle has taken more out of system OH CRAP LET'S SET THE D ZONE transition type attacks than both leftsides combined, in addition to being the only primary passer in all 6 rotations. Her freshman year both Magee and Armstrong were gone for the majority of the season, and Acevedo's multiple injuries had more or less neutralized her as a go-to attacker. Texas had nobody except Destinee and Ashley, which made it easy for opposing blockers to load up. But unlike Destinee (or Christal) Engle never gets the luxury of hitting over setters like Djordjevic, KC Walsh, Perez, etc. But this isn't even about that. I'm not saying, "All your National Team are belong to us! Sub in every Ashley Engle for great justice!". All I'm saying is she has great skills in the two areas most lacking in our current OH pipeline - passing and defense, as well as being fully capable of being a top-notch setter if that were all she spent time on. How many people have come on here in the last four years and said they'd be willing to trade off our big hitters for some who were a little less powerful but in return had great passing skills? Personally I feel the same way you do, about Barboza. She and Engle would make a dynamite beach duo after a few years of practice. Okay, this is getting way off the topic now.
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Post by rogero1 on Aug 28, 2008 4:30:12 GMT -5
;D Like I said: I'm the only one who thinks Nnamani is a middle... ;D With her quickness and jumping ability her size (a shade under 6'1") is not a problem. No way to tell about her closing ability until it has been tried... My 16's club team played Nmamani when she was playing middle. Trust me, she is better on the outside where she can use her approach to crush the ball rather than watching her trying to close a block.
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Post by roofed! on Aug 28, 2008 20:41:50 GMT -5
If it's an issue of passing as well as hitting on the RS, I still would put quite a few LS on the squad before engle. I already posted her performances against top competition the last two years. Not impressed. If it's an issue of having an all around RS hitter, I put a Morrison (played RS freshmen year), Larson, or perhaps Barboza before Engle. She's got room to improve, but when you are talking about making the jump from college to pro, ALL the elite players have the potential and ability to improve, nothing stands out about Engle as a hitter/passer above the other elite outsides. It's vaguely amusing how I make some comments about how Engle might be used on the National Team if she were to play there (and I conclude setter or primarily defensive OPP would suit her game). Then the purple-colored glasses kick in and suddenly you're responding as if I'm starting some kind of debate about whether or not she's #1 on the depth chart of big attacking terminators (instead of, you say.... well.... <shuffling your feet>... just randomly picking players out of the air here... maybe someone like, I dunno, Christal Morrison??). LOL...that's funny!!! Seriously, who knows who might make it in 2012. Not only whether the players have the talent but also the desire to go through the national team training for months and years. 3-4 years ago, who would have thought that Glass would be national team member, let alone a starter in Beijing? At Arizona, she was erratic both with her passing and hitting, and many wondered whether the #2 recruit (in her class) would ever lived up to her potential (maybe, wrong coaching?)? Candace Lee was right there in the fight for the libero position 2-3 years ago, even displacing Nicole Davis for a few tournaments, but she suddenly disappeared in 2007? Whatever happened to her...injury? personal reasons? I remembered reading somewhere that April Ross was invited to join the national team 3-4 years ago but she elected not to go through the "spartan" lifestyle at OTC and she chose to play on the beach instead (also, the decision to go beach was made to minimize the wear and tear on her knees). I wouldn't be surprised if only of the half of the names floated in the earlier posts actually chose to pursue indoor vball (and national team training) as full-time careers.
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Post by ay2013 on Aug 29, 2008 8:36:24 GMT -5
If it's an issue of passing as well as hitting on the RS, I still would put quite a few LS on the squad before engle. I already posted her performances against top competition the last two years. Not impressed. If it's an issue of having an all around RS hitter, I put a Morrison (played RS freshmen year), Larson, or perhaps Barboza before Engle. She's got room to improve, but when you are talking about making the jump from college to pro, ALL the elite players have the potential and ability to improve, nothing stands out about Engle as a hitter/passer above the other elite outsides. It's vaguely amusing how I make some comments about how Engle might be used on the National Team if she were to play there (and I conclude setter or primarily defensive OPP would suit her game). Then the purple-colored glasses kick in and suddenly you're responding as if I'm starting some kind of debate about whether or not she's #1 on the depth chart of big attacking terminators (instead of, you say.... well.... <shuffling your feet>... just randomly picking players out of the air here... maybe someone like, I dunno, Christal Morrison??). Since you recommend "a Morrison", I have to say, looking over some of her performances against top competition the last two years, not impressed. Unless perhaps we're not considering teams like 2006 National Runner-Up Stanford as "top competition". Or maybe 2007 2nd-round BYU isn't "top competition" either. (You may have a point here - what does a bad performance against "medium" competition say?). I'm sure Christal's lackluster performances in those types of matches, like Engle's in the matches you spent time picking out, were all her fault and had nothing to do with a poor performance by her entire team. After all, volleyball is primarily an individual sport as we know it. The same could be said for another of your suggestions, Larson. She has disappeared in a few big matches during her career too. I don't believe any of these three characterizations is true, but that's what happens when you obsessively check back through box scores and find things that fit your theories. The point is that stats sheets, like most data, tell you very little unless you understand their context. Hooker and Faucette are free to rest for three back row rotations and then get hidden in reception and rack up the big kill totals on the left side while Engle has taken more out of system OH CRAP LET'S SET THE D ZONE transition type attacks than both leftsides combined, in addition to being the only primary passer in all 6 rotations. Her freshman year both Magee and Armstrong were gone for the majority of the season, and Acevedo's multiple injuries had more or less neutralized her as a go-to attacker. Texas had nobody except Destinee and Ashley, which made it easy for opposing blockers to load up. But unlike Destinee (or Christal) Engle never gets the luxury of hitting over setters like Djordjevic, KC Walsh, Perez, etc. But this isn't even about that. I'm not saying, "All your National Team are belong to us! Sub in every Ashley Engle for great justice!". All I'm saying is she has great skills in the two areas most lacking in our current OH pipeline - passing and defense, as well as being fully capable of being a top-notch setter if that were all she spent time on. How many people have come on here in the last four years and said they'd be willing to trade off our big hitters for some who were a little less powerful but in return had great passing skills? Personally I feel the same way you do, about Barboza. She and Engle would make a dynamite beach duo after a few years of practice. Okay, this is getting way off the topic now. yawn.... good morning to you too.... the only thing I will touch on is this performance thing. Yes I agree the stats don't say everything, but a negative hitting percentage is bad performance no matter how you slice it. And Washington has played quite a few matches against the nations best.....like 15 matches against final four teams is not what I would call medium competition. She (Morrison) surely had many a good matches. Yes the future is the future, but if Engle is going to hit in the front row I'd like to see her offensive game develop (moral of my story) ok I'm done. VOLLEYBALL SEASON IS HERE
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