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Post by onceabighitter on Apr 23, 2009 1:21:51 GMT -5
how many years has vegas been going on? and what are the odds of it being ran better next year? I think Clint has been running the Vegas tourney for past 4 years, give or take a year. Chances of it being run better next year? NONE I made a bunch of comments about how poorly the tourney was run BEFORE this years Vegas tourney and everyone gave me a hard time. Then I come to find out that he had uneven pools (someteam who won their pool had to play a challenge rounds, others didnt), some teams were told to show up at 8am only to not play their first match til 2pm, and he had the #1 and #2 ranked teams play each other on the first day...in a match that meant nothing. And he alos has teams play for place (ie, lets play a game to see hwo gets 9th and who gets 10th...neat!) If this tourney was held anywhere else except Vegas, It wuld have folded after a year or two, but because he has a monopoly on Vegas, it still is a big draw. Imagine how big it could be if it were run well?
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Post by slamjam on Apr 23, 2009 2:24:13 GMT -5
I played this year at Vegas and it had its moments where things were stupid, but it wasn't ran bad. And once again, Fresno State vs. Oshkosh at Vegas, who doesn't want to see that? And guess what? Who was in the national championship finals? I think of Vegas as the mini nationals where you get to see the best teams. And think of it this way Virginia Tech, what would you have given to play Arizona or Colorado before nationals? And.... its Vegas!
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Post by vtmiddle24 on Apr 23, 2009 10:33:34 GMT -5
yeah i think we are considering going to vegas instead of the preseason michigan state tourney
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Post by scmb19 on Apr 23, 2009 11:23:20 GMT -5
How ironic that everyone complains about lack of midwest and east vs west playing and saying teams should travel more and yet bashing Vegas because of playing extra matches. IF you are going to spend the money to travel to a tournament fairly far away, why not get as many games in as possible. Sure, while there you may not want to play for that place, but it does help in the national rankings because it allows for teams to play eachother that otherwise wouldn't. The chance for Fresno to play Oshkosh (neither team was in the finals at Vegas) is great practice and experience against another top team before nationals. Sure, some of the logistics may be a little messed up, but at least there is variety of competition. That is one reason why teams keep going back to Vegas.
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Post by vbtrain on Apr 23, 2009 11:51:15 GMT -5
Vegas is def good because you get a lot of matches in and you get to play against a bunch of teams from around the country (obviously teams like the idea of traveling to vegas regardless of where you are from). The tournament is not run as smooth as HIC, but it still works.
Bottom line, I think all teams form the Midwest should go to HIC, and its a great chance for East Coast teams to play some better competition. In terms of Vegas, it gives the midwest the chance to travel away from their region for a big tournament. It is a little harder for East Coast teams to make both HIC and Vegas trips in the same semester. We made it to both twice in my four years and it was a huge help for nationals...
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Post by cardnalsinningbear on Apr 23, 2009 14:13:21 GMT -5
The problem with the Vegas tournament is simple math. There are only 10 courts and something like 30 women's teams and 38-42 mens teams. Way too many teams for so few courts. There was almost always a game being played on every court yet both days still didn't finish until 10 PM or later. Some basic adjustments would make it run much smoother: 1. Ditch the best of 3 format the first day in pools and switch to just 2 games using point differential 2. Make the tournament either invitational or first-come-first-serve. 32 mens and 32 womens teams make the pools, brackets and overall format easy to setup. Sure not everyone gets to come, but it gets rid of the uneven pools and challenge rounds and some of the seeding problems that arose from last minute team drops and additions. 3. Budget more time for each match. Clint only budgeted 1 hour per best of 3 match including warmups. With that many teams and no scheduled wiggle-room it caught up with him fast. Normally I would say these problems can be fixed by adding more courts, but I am pretty sure that every court available at UNLV is being used (no way the athletic department would let them have the arena as well).
Overall the tournament is a great idea but it is very poorly run (very poor communication before and during the tournament and fundamental format problems) and has been every year. There is no reason to think the current personnel will fix anything next year. Egos need to be put aside and someone brought in for one year that knows what they are doing to set things straight.
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Post by onceabighitter on Apr 23, 2009 15:44:05 GMT -5
The problem with the Vegas tournament is simple math. There are only 10 courts and something like 30 women's teams and 38-42 mens teams. Way too many teams for so few courts. There was almost always a game being played on every court yet both days still didn't finish until 10 PM or later. Some basic adjustments would make it run much smoother: 1. Ditch the best of 3 format the first day in pools and switch to just 2 games using point differential 2. Make the tournament either invitational or first-come-first-serve. 32 mens and 32 womens teams make the pools, brackets and overall format easy to setup. Sure not everyone gets to come, but it gets rid of the uneven pools and challenge rounds and some of the seeding problems that arose from last minute team drops and additions. 3. Budget more time for each match. Clint only budgeted 1 hour per best of 3 match including warmups. With that many teams and no scheduled wiggle-room it caught up with him fast. Normally I would say these problems can be fixed by adding more courts, but I am pretty sure that every court available at UNLV is being used (no way the athletic department would let them have the arena as well). Overall the tournament is a great idea but it is very poorly run (very poor communication before and during the tournament and fundamental format problems) and has been every year. There is no reason to think the current personnel will fix anything next year. Egos need to be put aside and someone brought in for one year that knows what they are doing to set things straight. Can I get an "AMEN"? Look my point is not to say "stay home and do not go to Vegas". My point is that the Vegas Tourney survives merely because of its location, and therefore is a draw for out of region teams. Imagine how huge it would be IF it were run effeciently??? It is not a success because of how it is run. Its a success DESPITE how its run. Look to the HI and Far Westerns on how a tourney should be run. They use similar formats (exactly the same I believe) to Nationals, and are run with class and clarity. Vegas, as a tourney, is run with very little communication, success or anything else. Was it Fun for everyone to see Fresno beat Oshkosh the first day? Perhaps. Did the fact that two of the top teams had to play each other Day 1 in what was basically an "exhibition match" effect these teams not making the finals? No one will ever know. You get UP for a match vs the #1 team in the country (even though it doesnt matter) then show up the next morning and everything seems a little downhill...and both teams lose. The point is...in a tourney run properly these teams would play in the finals, should they qualify to do so. Not because the tourney director needed to give everyone an extra meaningless game. The points made above by "Cardnals..." are valid. Clint tries to have too many teams with uneven numbers on too few courts. Simply limit the teams to 32 per division, run it on 8 courts, and things would be 100% better. Is that so hard? Oh yeah...don't play PLACEMENT games...I dont care what anyone says, no one wantsto see who gets 13th and who gets 14th. In fact, some teams teams take them serious, most don't...so why should a match that means nothing have an effect on seeding at Nationals?? Just have the UC Davis guys who run FW tourney run Vegas too...give Davis free entry and be done with it. Heck, give me a flight, a hotel room and one teams entry fee as pay and I'll run it!. Clint can still make the rest of the money...(which Im guessing is his reason to allow All-comers to play, despite not having enough courts).
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Post by vtmiddle24 on Apr 27, 2009 13:44:19 GMT -5
is clint aware of how poorly he is running his tournament? or is all this talk just behind his back?
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Post by sltp2004 on Jun 25, 2009 0:52:45 GMT -5
So has anyone heard anything about nationals being with usavb... or is it Dallas for sure???
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Post by coolkid on Jun 25, 2009 7:42:50 GMT -5
It's Dallas for sure.
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Lew8ftln
Sophomore
Tweet? Follow team updates @oshkoshmvball or myself @bigfire8
Posts: 163
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Post by Lew8ftln on Jun 25, 2009 10:54:12 GMT -5
Any clubs out there considering setting up a Twitter account to keep fans, friends, recruits in the loop? This seems to be a growing trend in the sports world, and I think some of the upper club teams can benefit from this. I believe I will be setting one up for Oshkosh in a short bit with a link to our website.....think about it.
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Post by gobears on Jun 25, 2009 13:53:50 GMT -5
NIRSA's tourney NCCS is in Dallas. The new commissioner's organization NCVF is apparently finalizing a contract with USA VB to do another tourney at another locale, another date. ncvfvolleyball.org/default.aspxno info on here yet about 2010. Stay tuned.
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Post by westcoastplaya on Jun 26, 2009 16:56:49 GMT -5
WHAT!?!? R U serious? Why on earth would the NCV whoever do something like this? These idiots will probably select the same date as NIRSA (which I believe runs an excellent national championship).
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Post by rogero1 on Jun 26, 2009 22:42:40 GMT -5
WHAT!?!? R U serious? Why on earth would the NCV whoever do something like this? These idiots will probably select the same date as NIRSA (which I believe runs an excellent national championship). These idiots are the people who used to run NIRSA. They have split off from NIRSA due to philosophical differences. Do you want to play in a smaller tournament (NIRSA) back on a campus or a larger one (NCV) in a convention center? You can pick from going to a unknown tournament (NIRSA) or a well run tournament (NCV). I know where I'm heading to next yr.
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Lew8ftln
Sophomore
Tweet? Follow team updates @oshkoshmvball or myself @bigfire8
Posts: 163
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Post by Lew8ftln on Jun 28, 2009 11:35:31 GMT -5
First club team to have a Twitter???
twitter.com/OshkoshMVball
Get your team signed up.....
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