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Post by volleyballer4life on May 19, 2009 18:32:59 GMT -5
Volleyball is an incredibly dynamic team sport. I loved playing it although I could never get past my goofy-footed approach due to years of playing basketball. I wish I'd had the opportunities to play when I was in HS that kids now have. My question is this: Why is the sport so popular everywhere but the USA and it was developed here? My own guesses would be: 1. It's not violent enough. 2. There's no physical contact between players - in fact a net separates them. 3. It may be too fast, at least on the men's side. 4. It's a "girls" game
5. It's a backyard picnic game6. You can't truly use your hands (ie Throw and Catch) which seems to be a prerequisite for US sports although non-Americans thrive in sports where you don't use your hands - Soccer/VBall 7. It's not violent enough I also think Volleyball is not a good television sport because it's tough to follow the ball or know where it's going for the cameras. It's very fast and can be dull to neophytes if there's a lot of quick side-outs due to unstoppable offense or bad serving. I have a tough time watching our pro sports except NFL football. NBA Bball has gotten so far from the pure sport it was and the reffing is so subjective and inconsistent that it's almost a caricature of what the game used to be. Baseball is just too long and boring of a season. On another note, I believe in Puerto Rico they start the kids out at 4 and 5 years old. I think they play on a smaller court with a lower net and everyone plays every position. Serving is controlled by restricting service points so the game doesn't hinge on serve receive. It must work because players from the island are usually very fundamentally sound. The things I put in bold are close to the reality of the situation, but don't quite hit it. Simply put, I have never invited someone to one of my college matches for their first volleyball experience that didn't end up having a blast. They always seemed shocked by the fast-paced action and the energy of the crowd. We're talking about people from 18-40 here. I disagree that television isn't able to give angles that make the game easy to follow. The issue with television in my opinion is the ability for the sport to get ratings high enough to be profitable for networks, thus there is no incentive for a network to carry games on a regular basis. The closest thing we've ever had to a "must-see" volleyball experience on television since I've been able to remember MIGHT have been the gold medal match this last Olympics, and that stemmed specifically from the tragedy that occurred. Your #4 and #5 are stereotypes that the sport gets, and I blame that primarily on the fact that high level volleyball is not easily accessible for the common person to spectate, and if your first impression of the sport comes from a junior high/low level high school match... odds of one returning are slim and none. Make the sport appealing at a younger age like other countries, and we may have a glimmer of hope. Until then? It'll continue to be the small, almost cult-like community that it is today. |
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Post by cyberVBmidwest on May 19, 2009 19:38:38 GMT -5
I agree with your points, but the whole topic of this thread was laid down in the first post in which the poster referenced the fact that Lloy Ball stated that men's volleyball in this country is dying, and that Doug Beal and Co. have "done all they can" to try to help it. Yep, I focused on his second point of the original post and you focused on the first point!  |
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setme
Sophomore
Posts: 169
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Post by setme on May 20, 2009 0:27:12 GMT -5
I found this site earlier this year and it has been a very good resource of information until this thread. While good points are being made by knowledgeable folks, I couldn't stand by and watch folks trash the name of people you don't personally know (Beal), nor do you understand the efforts being made by many people around the country to grow the game. All some can do is trash those efforts with thoughtless comments and walk away.
I started playing this game in college, after playing 2 years of basketball in the Big 10 and have not played, coached or officiated anything but volleyball for the past 30 years. I met my wife playing the game, all our kids now play the game, four are now collegiate athletes participating in NCAA volleyball programs, three of them boys and all were born in Alaska – a state where hockey dominates all other sports. We relocated to a Midwestern state several years ago where there was no sanctioned boys volleyball, so what did I do, started doing something about it and started coaching, club and high school boys volleyball. If an old broken down Middle Hitter with 8 kids can do it, then I am thinking to myself, why can’t all of you. It’s easy to point fingers at others that try to do something about the problem, but when the tough get going, some just like to sit on the sidelines and fix the blame on others instead of fixing the problem! There are lots of folks with great ideas here, but if you don’t do something about it, nothing happens!
Kudos to those that propose solutions, but take it to the next level, start putting those ideas in people’s hands that can actually make change, see if you can form the grass roots organization that gets noticed, and then stay involved. When you start pointing fingers at others, there are three fingers also pointing right back at you! None of us are perfect, but if we work together, we just might be able to do something about it. If I had not reached outside myself many years ago and started coaching, my kids would have probably never continued playing more than recreationally. I challenge you all to take the bull by the horns and do something about it instead of whining.
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Post by ananamoose on May 20, 2009 0:48:36 GMT -5
This was posted on the one before this but I think that this is the reason that volleyball gets big. This kid is incredible, and it just shows that if more kids were exposed to it than more kids would be this fanatic about volleyball. I think one of the best ways to promote it is to see it played at a high level and that's what Doug Beal has done he has allowed us to see Volleyball played at a high level. It might be able to be marketed better but Mr. Beal has done an incredible job at making the U.S. a powerhouse among the volleyball world. I do not believe that all of the changes in the coaching staff is a bad thing though, National team coaches put in countless and countless hours along without seeing there family, for a salary that is not exactly massive. With Mr. Beal we will continue to produce good volleyball teams and that is in essence what we want to do. With more exposure to good volleyball comes more littlest big fans!
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alby
Sophomore
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Post by alby on May 20, 2009 0:48:56 GMT -5
Regardless of any pointing fingers that has occurred, I still feel that even this thread is a good resource of information. Hopefully it will inspire people to take the bull by the horns. IMHO, I think the best idea on here thus far would be to start mini volie leagues in Boy's and Girl's Clubs and the like.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 20, 2009 1:21:51 GMT -5
I found this site earlier this year and it has been a very good resource of information until this thread. While good points are being made by knowledgeable folks, I couldn't stand by and watch folks trash the name of people you don't personally know (Beal), nor do you understand the efforts being made by many people around the country to grow the game. All some can do is trash those efforts with thoughtless comments and walk away. I started playing this game in college, after playing 2 years of basketball in the Big 10 and have not played, coached or officiated anything but volleyball for the past 30 years. I met my wife playing the game, all our kids now play the game, four are now collegiate athletes participating in NCAA volleyball programs, three of them boys and all were born in Alaska – a state where hockey dominates all other sports. We relocated to a Midwestern state several years ago where there was no sanctioned boys volleyball, so what did I do, started doing something about it and started coaching, club and high school boys volleyball. If an old broken down Middle Hitter with 8 kids can do it, then I am thinking to myself, why can’t all of you. It’s easy to point fingers at others that try to do something about the problem, but when the tough get going, some just like to sit on the sidelines and fix the blame on others instead of fixing the problem! There are lots of folks with great ideas here, but if you don’t do something about it, nothing happens! Kudos to those that propose solutions, but take it to the next level, start putting those ideas in people’s hands that can actually make change, see if you can form the grass roots organization that gets noticed, and then stay involved. When you start pointing fingers at others, there are three fingers also pointing right back at you! None of us are perfect, but if we work together, we just might be able to do something about it. If I had not reached outside myself many years ago and started coaching, my kids would have probably never continued playing more than recreationally. I challenge you all to take the bull by the horns and do something about it instead of whining. If you're gonna make a point, then make a point regarding the topic at hand. All the "well, heck I did this and that and that and that..." is fairly useless and adds nothing to the discussion. Volleyball will continue to be a fringe sport, fairly homogenous as a participation sport limited to a certain ethnic and economic demographic. It's what the leadership of this sport want, and it is what the leadership of the sport will continue to perpetuate. |
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Post by bunnywailer on May 20, 2009 1:26:45 GMT -5
I'm still waiting for USA Volleyball to publish demographic information regarding sport participation. Heck they take that diversity data on all the registration forms, why isn't that data published?
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Post by bunnywailer on May 20, 2009 1:35:09 GMT -5
This is humorous...here's a portion of the Juniors membership registration form:
USA Volleyball is committed to diversity - Your response is voluntary
�� Caucasian �� Hispanic �� Asian-American or Pacific Islander �� Check if you want to be on the USAV 3rd party mailing list
�� African American �� Native American �� Multi-racial (please specify) �� Check if you are hearing impaired or deaf for ADVA info
Committed to diversity MY ASS. PUBLISH THE DATA DOUG BEAL! Show the country what I already know and have known for years!
Volleyball as a sport will NEVER grow in this country unless the sport is made available to everyone from every ethic and economic demographic background.
I am now looking to hear bogus arguments from clueless USAV apologist posters on this thread who will undoubtedly convince me that Doug Beal and the USAV staff is diligently working hard to provide this opportunity.
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setme
Sophomore
Posts: 169
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Post by setme on May 20, 2009 2:00:52 GMT -5
The force is strong with this one, GSoBB, let the force flow through you and use it for good.
There was a board member opening recently with USA, you should apply and make a difference with your ideas! I'm not saying you are wrong, but it takes a village to raise a child... All I am saying is we all need to take responsibility to continue to grow the sport, so step up and do your part and quit tearing it down.
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Post by bunnywailer on May 20, 2009 2:11:57 GMT -5
I did my part to grow the sport, and nothing happened. So now I'm tired and don't really give a crap and have moved on to other pursuits. And I have never torn down the sport, just the idiots placed in charge of administering it.
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Post by rogero1 on May 20, 2009 4:15:14 GMT -5
On a slightly different swing to this topic - let me share a story supporting USAV from the clubs perspective. One might think that the local clubs would be very, very supportive of kids in their programs participating in the A1, A2 camps and programs. Maybe a utopic type of idea, but USAV wanting to support v-ball - either mens and womens, and then the clubs wanting to support USAV with participation, etc, etc. There are two known clubs in Chicago, one being Adversity which couldn't be more supportive of the USAV and one that is almost opposed to USAV participation - that being SPRI. From an idealistic perspective, I'd like to think the clubs would be more like the Adversity model, but from perhaps an individual perspective (or perhaps its just money or ego) there may be clubs like SPRI that simply turn their back. I even know of situations in the past where players where high school player's "team motives" were challenged for choosing to go to USAV sponsored sessions vs the club's. Which seems to be incredibly selfish from the club's perspective - you'd think they'd want to encourage this - for the good of the player, for the marketing it brings to the club, for the spirit of supporting USAV. Hey - I guess not in America, where the club is 1st - and screw USAV or anything else. Wondering if there are others of you out there who have heard of this type of respect or lack of respect by club teams vs USAV - or visa versa, or is this more of an isolated incident. Speaking of the NorCal area I don't see much of this type of problem around here, but then again there isn't the scale of clubs here vs SoCal or the Chicago area. As someone who coaches both genders in the Chicago area, I think I know both clubs pretty well. It is not a lack of respect, just a difference in training methodology. Adversity sends its guys to A2, YNT, HP programs, etc. because of its club director's support of USAV. After all, he did coach the silver medal winning sitting team. Adversity used to be one of the top two clubs in the area. Now, they have fallen behind SPRI & Ultimate because the north suburban HS coaches are sending their players to SPRI to get their technical training, those coaches don't agree with the USAV coaching philosophy, and why pay the same price for a club that only practices 2 days a week as opposed to a club that practices 4-5 days a week? SPRI's program is geared towards getting its players college scholarships (male or female). Look at how many guys that are Fab 50 players again this year. Every year they are increasing the gap between the two clubs. SPRI does not encourage their players to tryout because they feel that they have the best training available and those players need to recover from their season for HS. |
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Post by Murina on May 20, 2009 4:26:47 GMT -5
I did my part to grow the sport, and nothing happened. So now I'm tired and don't really give a crap and have moved on to other pursuits. Oh gawd... Ok, SoBB did his part to grow the sport and nothing happend and now he no longer gives a crap and is doing nothing. Doug Beal did his part to grow the sport and nothing happened, and now he doesn't give a crap and is doing nothing. So SoBB is Doug Beal! Come on Bob/Doug, the game is no fun when you make it this easy! ;D Please make it harder next time.  |
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Post by rogero1 on May 20, 2009 4:38:44 GMT -5
I did my part to grow the sport, and nothing happened. So now I'm tired and don't really give a crap and have moved on to other pursuits. And I have never torn down the sport, just the idiots placed in charge of administering it. I hear ya. I'm about ready to chuck 20+ yrs of coaching jrs for something else. From a neutral viewpoint: USAV does not have the money to fund every program. Yes, this is a bad time for getting money from companies for a team sport that does not have a marquee face to endorse a sponsor. Remember, USAV is hosting the Pan American Games and participating in WL again this year along with sending YNT & JNT team across the world. Travel and hosting costs are not cheap. Why didn't USAV get enough sponsors after '84 & '88??? Because they were a mom & pop operation at the national office. USAV was depending on a marketing firm to get them sponsors back then because they had no idea of how to get people to sponsor them. USAV was asking each Olympian's Region to sponsor that person for the year. How do you market a team sport to get sponsorships? I'd like to hear other ideas here on VT. TV wants individual personalities to make the game more personable and identifiable to the average viewer. Kerri & Misty were shown on TV how many times on late night Olympic coverage? Quite a few times. |
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Post by shaqtastic on May 20, 2009 8:40:35 GMT -5
Regardless of any pointing fingers that has occurred, I still feel that even this thread is a good resource of information Mr. Ammerman I assume. Hopefully it will inspire people to take the bull by the horns. IMHO, I think the best idea on here thus far would be to start mini volie leagues in Boy's and Girl's Clubs and the like. Hey don't go calling people out by name on this board even if you suspect who the poster may be. And if you let people know I'm Shaquille Rashaun O'Neal I will find you and mess you up! |
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Post by cclbro2 on May 20, 2009 9:55:51 GMT -5
Ok i am glad that this post has really made some people think. Let me throw another thought/ example at you and we can go from there.
A few weeks ago there was a D3 school in the Midwest who was asked to host the Molten... In the same e-mail USAV told the school they want to grow the sport in the Midwest, Mr. USAV himself wrote "Your school will have to pick up the extra $15,000 for travel costs for the other teams."
1. We want the sport to grow, but we won’t help fund it!!!
2. We want people to get excited, but we won’t support them!!!
3. We want coaches to do everything they can to make volleyball in the US a thriving sport, but won’t give them the tools!!!
YES USAV YOU ARE DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN!!!!
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