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Post by beachman on May 24, 2009 16:18:45 GMT -5
It is amazing what a great teacher you can be when the boosters bought and paid for many of the top players on a team, in an era before others began doing so. Amazing this is always held in such reverance. One booster in particular, who was ultimately banned from the school, the basketball team, and just about everything associated with UCLA.....no matter how great a coach you are, you can't win without talent! Wooden had a phenomenal advantage in that area!
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Post by Phaedrus on May 24, 2009 16:24:55 GMT -5
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Post by IdahoBoy on May 24, 2009 16:36:17 GMT -5
It is amazing what a great teacher you can be when the boosters bought and paid for many of the top players on a team, in an era before others began doing so. Amazing this is always held in such reverance. One booster in particular, who was ultimately banned from the school, the basketball team, and just about everything associated with UCLA.....no matter how great a coach you are, you can't win without talent! Wooden had a phenomenal advantage in that area! He went to Long Beach, didn't he?
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on May 24, 2009 19:46:03 GMT -5
It is amazing what a great teacher you can be when the boosters bought and paid for many of the top players on a team, in an era before others began doing so. Amazing this is always held in such reverance. One booster in particular, who was ultimately banned from the school, the basketball team, and just about everything associated with UCLA.....no matter how great a coach you are, you can't win without talent! Wooden had a phenomenal advantage in that area! However, Wooden's first championship team had no one taller than 6'5" (very small even for the old days) and Gilbert was not involved with UCLA until years later. In fact, Alcindor (who was a bit taller than 6'5") arrivied several years before Gilbert.
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Post by lovaza on May 24, 2009 22:40:03 GMT -5
We just don't have a lot of respect for coach Knight around here...sorry he's proven himself to be quite an ass. Coach Newell's legacy would be better served without coach him...that's what I'm talking about. Again I ask, "How many NCAA championships did Newell win?"
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Post by BearClause on May 25, 2009 0:47:40 GMT -5
We just don't have a lot of respect for coach Knight around here...sorry he's proven himself to be quite an ass. Coach Newell's legacy would be better served without coach him...that's what I'm talking about. Again I ask, "How many NCAA championships did Newell win?" I thought that was answered. One NCAA D-I championship, one NIT championship back when it was **the** top tournament, and one Olympic gold medal team (coaches aren't awarded medals however).
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Post by BearClause on May 25, 2009 0:51:24 GMT -5
One booster in particular, who was ultimately banned from the school, the basketball team, and just about everything associated with UCLA.....no matter how great a coach you are, you can't win without talent! Wooden had a phenomenal advantage in that area! He went to Long Beach, didn't he? Sam Gilbert actually dropped out of UCLA. For a while I though he was a Cal grad, but that was Edwin Pauley I was thinking of. His name is on some building on the UCLA campus.
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Post by Phaedrus on May 25, 2009 9:10:39 GMT -5
We just don't have a lot of respect for coach Knight around here...sorry he's proven himself to be quite an ass. Coach Newell's legacy would be better served without coach him...that's what I'm talking about. Again I ask, "How many NCAA championships did Newell win?" So, out of ALL the accolades for Pete Newell, you focus on the one from Bob Knight and make that the definitive statement on Pete Newell's body of work? If you had bothered to look at his body of work and the people that he'd been associated with you would not be stating such a juvenile opinion. Keep your blinders on and live in your well.
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Post by lovaza on May 25, 2009 12:38:46 GMT -5
Now Phaedrus let's not get our panties all bunched up...Coach Newell is nothing more than a footnote in the bottom of the back of the little book of basketball history. How many NCAA championships did he win?
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Post by baldyballer on May 25, 2009 12:59:34 GMT -5
Whether you like Wooden or Newell I think the important thing here is to recognize the impact that they both have had in coaching. I'm pretty sure most coaches have read or seen the Pyramid of Success and have adopted similar principals to coaching their athletes. That's several generations of teaching solid lessons to coaches and kids. I for one have respect for the coaching profession and applaud the efforts of past coaches. You don't have to agree with their coaching styles (my example is Knight), but you can respect the coaches that stick to their guns and have success on their terms.
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Post by Phaedrus on May 25, 2009 12:59:56 GMT -5
Now Phaedrus let's not get our panties all bunched up...Coach Newell is nothing more than a footnote in the bottom of the back of the little book of basketball history. How many NCAA championships did he win? You keep asking the same question and people keep giving you the answers: 1 NCAA, 1 NIT, 1 Olympic gold. The NIT was won when that was the only collegiate championship, and that was the NIT. The NCAA was won when at-large bids did not exist. Getting back to the point. Do you always base your decisions on a sample of one? Do you let your hatred fro one person drive your entire thought process towards the world at large? Are you so narrowly focued that you fail to see the big picture?
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Post by BearClause on May 25, 2009 13:29:10 GMT -5
Now Phaedrus let's not get our panties all bunched up...Coach Newell is nothing more than a footnote in the bottom of the back of the little book of basketball history. How many NCAA championships did he win? You keep asking the same question and people keep giving you the answers: 1 NCAA, 1 NIT, 1 Olympic gold. The NIT was won when that was the only collegiate championship, and that was the NIT. The NCAA was won when at-large bids did not exist. Just a footnote, but the NCAA basketball tournament does go back to 1939. Back then (until about the early-50s after the CCNY point-shaving scandal) the NIT was generally considered the premier college basketball tournament. It was so prestigious that the NCAA had to hold its tournament after the NIT. CCNY actually won both tournaments in 1950. For the 1951 point-shavers, a life lived in infamyIn 1951, a series of point-shaving and cheating scandals rocked college sports. Wright Thompson looks at the lives since then of some of the athletes who were caught. sports.espn.go.com/espn/cheat/news/story?id=2958786
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Post by Keystonekid on May 26, 2009 9:47:17 GMT -5
At the top of the pyramid of success should be BOOSTER
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Post by Keystonekid on May 26, 2009 9:52:10 GMT -5
facts are facts. And the fact is, Wooden was at UCLA for 15 years, from 1948-63, without winning an NCAA championship. And then from 1964-76 he won 10 titles in 12 years. What changed? Sam Gilbert's involvement changed.
Gilbert, a UCLA alum and wealthy contractor, opened his home and apparently his wallet to the Bruins, from Lew Alcindor to Lucius Allen to Bill Walton. When the best Bruins left school, Gilbert represented them as an agent, which is one of the most brazen unpunished NCAA violations in college sports history: Rich booster spoils the best players on campus, then becomes their agent. And the coach doesn't stop it. Doesn't even know about it.
Maybe Wooden didn't know. But his attention to detail was legendary. Wooden literally monitored how his players tied their shoes and how they wore their socks ... but he didn't know Gilbert -- the players called him "Papa Sam" -- was giving them cash and clothes and cars before becoming their agent? Maybe. More likely, Wooden didn't want to know. That's how he slept at night, and that's how he won 10 national titles.
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Post by lovaza on May 26, 2009 12:08:24 GMT -5
Is it me or does that last post sound like sour grapes?
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