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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Aug 4, 2009 21:26:08 GMT -5
Barky.. yes ,but only to a point. If as originally stated the OBAMA administration had NOTHING to do with it as the press secretary said.. Then MR. CLINTON VIOLATED government policy of not negotiating with terror leaders. ah.. from MOVIE ..."the good of the many out way  the Good of the few." If Obama was involved and used Mr. Clinton..then MRS. Clinton is useless.She will have a hard time explaining why her husband did what she couldn't...when she runs for the office. OUCH..  If Mr. Clinton was used then Obama is using private citizens in dangerous task..another can o worms. Professionals were elected to do this work...why couldn't they do it? Next, my local home town is home to the mother of one of the tourist being held in IRAN..why no trip by Clinton there? Only the friends and privileged receive help? Carter and other presidents have done this before..and nothing was gained.. except more of the same. Actually, Hillary did the hard part -- delivering the U.S.'s hard-line approach and demanding amnesty (which in legal jargon, demands more from the country it's being requested from). And she was doing it at a negotiation where she couldn't back down from the stronger position, b/c well, she was also in talks with the North Koreans over a little thing called nuclear disarmament. The position that Bill was sent over authorized to convey was to ask (essentially beg) for a "pardon" based on humanitarian grounds. It's all political posturing. The release of the journalists are not tied to the nuclear talks in any way. The US is seen (in N. Korea) as backing down from the stronger position. But from the U.S. perspective, they achieve what they actually really wanted in the first place -- bringing its U.S. citizens back home ... |
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Post by Barky on Aug 5, 2009 1:14:19 GMT -5
Cubicle has it absolutely right.
The goal was to bring these women home. I agree that Clinton only went when it was a done deal that they would return with him. If that means Clinton was sent (and I'm sure happy to do it) to pose for a picture with Kim Jong Il to let the North Koreans feel it means something else then so be it. Who cares? The desired result was achieved. That shows great work by both Clintons and the administration.
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Post by holidayhusker on Aug 5, 2009 7:45:31 GMT -5
Great Job by Hilliary.....now...Here is the question of the day. How do you all feel about journalists who get into these situations. Are they a 'necessary," to reveal to the world the living conditions of the citizens under government rule ..........or...........are they fools who ignore every warning and jeapardize the safety of others?
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Post by goGopherBill on Aug 5, 2009 9:05:50 GMT -5
CNM..Actually Hillary did nothing but re enforce US policy that PRESIDENT BUSH started..
What was so hard about that?
Sure its all political..even we can see that..
" But from the U.S. perspective, they achieve what they actually really wanted in the first place -- bringing its U.S. citizens
back home "
That is Fine ..except...
What we wanted in the first place was for the North Korean leader to stop HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS..NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION AND SALE...and MISSILE TESTING.
What KIM wanted was a photo opp... legitimacy...and the ability to show to HIS NATION HE CAN DICTATE TERMS..and be a world player.
The 2 meant nothing to him.
We got what we wanted..gee is that all it's about ...easy this and easy that??
The specialist in North Korean affairs all say this is a losing deal in the long run.
The Proffessionals..
The experts.
Those with a non partisan track record.
KIM manipulated the whole Deal.
Hillary and OBAMA got USED.
PT ..
NK.
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Post by Barky on Aug 5, 2009 10:59:25 GMT -5
All the professionals and experts (including Bush's advisor on North Korean relations) I have seen and read are of the belief that this was a great way of resolving this situation and that it really means nothing in terms of future relations with North Korea.
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Post by goGopherBill on Aug 5, 2009 12:35:19 GMT -5
great spin..
I match any expert with mine..
But..
The proof will be how NK acts going forward,
Hillary today said this was a purely humanitarian deal..and does not reflect policy change.
BULL POOP.
Bill Clinton just didn't happen to fly a private plane to NK for lunch..pictures .
It was a thought out process.
How can a FORMER PRESIDENT do anything like this without FORMAL BLESSINGS?
What was so special about those 2 ?? I am sure the transparent administration will be sure and have a press conference and answer all questions.
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Post by BearClause on Aug 5, 2009 12:52:44 GMT -5
Cubicle has it absolutely right. The goal was to bring these women home. I agree that Clinton only went when it was a done deal that they would return with him. If that means Clinton was sent (and I'm sure happy to do it) to pose for a picture with Kim Jong Il to let the North Koreans feel it means something else then so be it. Who cares? The desired result was achieved. That shows great work by both Clintons and the administration. Many reports now are that North Korea had a list of envoys they considered acceptable for this duty. Any of the actual negotiations were between the US State Dept and N Korea's UN mission. |
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Post by Barky on Aug 5, 2009 17:09:31 GMT -5
Cubicle has it absolutely right. The goal was to bring these women home. I agree that Clinton only went when it was a done deal that they would return with him. If that means Clinton was sent (and I'm sure happy to do it) to pose for a picture with Kim Jong Il to let the North Koreans feel it means something else then so be it. Who cares? The desired result was achieved. That shows great work by both Clintons and the administration. Many reports now are that North Korea had a list of envoys they considered acceptable for this duty. Any of the actual negotiations were between the US State Dept and N Korea's UN mission. And? How does that differ with what I said? |
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Post by Barky on Aug 5, 2009 17:19:56 GMT -5
great spin.. I match any expert with mine.. You have your own experts? Impressive... I fully expect them to act the same way they always have. What are you expecting? Of course. Who said that was the case? If you comprehended my post I pretty much said it was a done deal and B. Clinton was basically the photo op. That's why I specifically stated that "BOTH" Clintons and the admin deserve great credit. What are you saying? We should have done nothing and just left them there? Now I see where we see things differently here. I'm sure their families could answer your question better than I can. Nice spin though Bill. Always tow the political line. Never let a good deed go unpunished and find fault and negativity in anything. Not surprising considering your constant rants about democrats...Oh well, Knock yourself out. Me? I'm happy with how this turned out. |
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Post by BearClause on Aug 5, 2009 17:30:47 GMT -5
Many reports now are that North Korea had a list of envoys they considered acceptable for this duty. Any of the actual negotiations were between the US State Dept and N Korea's UN mission. And? How does that differ with what I said? Well - that Bill Clinton wasn't the only acceptable envoy to the N Koreans. I don't remember hearing who else might have been acceptable to them, but they were obviously looking for someone with name recognition. |
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Post by Barky on Aug 5, 2009 17:41:47 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true.
I never said he was the only person who could have gone -- just that he deserves credit for actually going. He gave the N. Koreans a prominent figure yet also is not currently an actual part of the admin for the US so everyone was happy.
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Post by bunnywailer on Aug 5, 2009 17:53:08 GMT -5
Hey! Guess what? This one ISN'T GWB's fault.
This one is Mr. Teflon Al Gore's fault. So he had to have his big buddy brother Clinton bail his dumbass out yet one more time.
Hey! Teflon Man! How's that electricity bill at your house? Still up there around 12k/month? Dumbass.
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Post by goGopherBill on Aug 5, 2009 18:13:07 GMT -5
Yes.. instead of freeing hostages..it's become a buddy needing a friend to bail him out....Next ,bail those out in IRAN..
What we they doing in NORTH KOREA?
I think their boss needs to answer.
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the Good of the few."
