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Post by david on Jul 26, 2010 13:03:20 GMT -5
AVP has assets and a TV contract, right? And the economy will turn around at some point and when it does sports- not manufacturing corn cobs for outdoor toilets- will be an area of growth.
So the investors are probably looking to get the best deal for any follow-on money. Perhaps they want to cut some management salaries or reduce prizes to reduce the burn rate. But at the end of the day there will be a professional volleyball league called AVP- not sure who'll own it, but someone else should run it.
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Post by rbball02 on Jul 26, 2010 13:30:14 GMT -5
The AVP tour was losing money before 2008 its not a good business model because they cant advertise to anyone but their core fans to begin with
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Post by Mocha on Jul 26, 2010 16:10:58 GMT -5
The AVP tour was losing money before 2008 its not a good business model because they cant advertise to anyone but their core fans to begin with And there's not a lot of space to advertise on those skimpy outfits. ;D
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Post by johnbar on Jul 26, 2010 18:18:47 GMT -5
I have heard a lot fo talk about too much money spent on fancy offices and big salaries. They have cut back what they can now, but maybe too late.
Maybe they need to go through bankruptcy to write off their debts.
I'd be surprised if Misty or Kerri returned to indoor VB. They can make good money on the FIVB beach tour.
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Post by payfor4get4 on Jul 29, 2010 11:43:36 GMT -5
AVP has assets and a TV contract, right? And the economy will turn around at some point and when it does sports- not manufacturing corn cobs for outdoor toilets- will be an area of growth. So the investors are probably looking to get the best deal for any follow-on money. Perhaps they want to cut some management salaries or reduce prizes to reduce the burn rate. But at the end of the day there will be a professional volleyball league called AVP- not sure who'll own it, but someone else should run it. The AVP pays to be on TV. They do not get paid to be on TV. Those days are long gone for Beach VB. The AVP has lost the war with the FIVB and the war with USAV. One day the ownership will figure out that they have to cooperate with others in the VB space rather than control everything. Nick Lewen is a problem. For any new owner entering the space Nick needs to go. Who would invest 3-6 million and let someone else run the asset? Goodbye AVP.
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Post by bigfan on Jul 29, 2010 12:00:47 GMT -5
The AVP tour was losing money before 2008................... Holly McPeak and LAWYER hubby bailed out as owners........................was this not a huge red flag?
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Post by bigfan on Jul 29, 2010 12:02:55 GMT -5
I'd be surprised if Misty or Kerri returned to indoor VB. They can make good money on the FIVB beach tour. Misty and Kerri have as much a chance returning indoors as April Ross does....................
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Post by johnbar on Jul 29, 2010 14:58:46 GMT -5
The AVP tour was losing money before 2008................... Holly McPeak and LAWYER hubby bailed out as owners........................was this not a huge red flag? They were never the "owners". Leonard Armato worked for an investment group that owned the AVP; it wasn't his money. Then he was fired. That was the beginning of an attempt to save the AVP from financial ruin. Given the state of the economy, it would not be easy to save, and maybe they have failed. BTW, Armato, besides being a lawyer, was a beach player back in the 1970s.
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Post by bigfan on Jul 29, 2010 15:22:12 GMT -5
Holly McPeak and LAWYER hubby bailed out as owners........................was this not a huge red flag? Then he was fired. Tough crowd who run the AVP in these trying times. I knew he was a really succesfull lawyer who represented people like Shaq O'Neal.
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Post by cardcounter on Jul 29, 2010 21:33:03 GMT -5
The AVP has problems far beyond a questionable business model. The core problem is the lack of fan interest. At most of the events the fans are comprised of friends and relatives of players and a very, very small group of real fans (VB players and former players).
There just aren’t fans in general who appreciate the sport. I don’t see this changing. Half of the tickets sold at AVP events are either discounted in advance or comp tickets. And still they can’t fill up a small arena.
I don’t have any answers. Maybe collegiate sand volleyball will help popularize the AVP with players coming out of the college ranks who have alumni supporters.
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Post by beachvbfan on Jul 30, 2010 7:52:24 GMT -5
Johnbar and other : Note that Armato with or without his group (a sports agent firm) invested more money over the years from 2001 onwards. I recall that he owned 7 million shares of AVP stock at one point
All: Misty and Kerri going back to play indoors! Never!
Cardcounter: Spot on!
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Post by rbball02 on Jul 30, 2010 8:49:11 GMT -5
AVP needs to go begging to USAV and try and make up and get their help in making the tour solvent. USAV really does a good job running events and its a pretty legit operation and the AVP needs some of that structure. They would prob need to lose Malibu rum as a sponsor but they really arnt in any position to complain about anything.
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Post by Not Me on Jul 30, 2010 12:05:09 GMT -5
With such a limited audience now it has to be hard to find any sponsors. They keep pitching themselves as a life style sport, and there aren't many brands that can identify with that.
Until they can go out and a more diverse group of sponsors they will be in trouble. And to do that they have to broaden their appeal.
I went to the New Jersey AVP event this year. I was surprised by the lack of younger people at the event. It seemed to me that it was an older crowd. And, as mentioned, many seemed to be friends with the players.
Another issue is that they need to establish that their events actually have a monetary value so people will pay. I watched 2 days of VB (fri and sat) and didn't pay a thing to the avp ($7 a day per person to the town tp get on the beach bit no admission)
I got to see all the top teams play. There was no need to pay to get in the stadium. If you can get something for free why pay?
Merchadising was poor. Not centrally located and they didn't have much.
They had to lose a ton of money on the event. And with essentially fixed income possibilities ( limited seating)) they had to know that this was coming.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 30, 2010 23:01:46 GMT -5
Yes, I guess Armato had a bigger ownership stake than I realized; though I think at least some of his shares were options, bonuses, etc., not from him putting money in. I also believe (though I could be wrong) that his sports management firm and the AVP were two separate corporations.
Regarding popularity: the crowds seem to be down this year, but they have had better years. The AVP was huge in the early 1990s, and seemed to be on its way back in the mid 2000s. (I was in packed stadiums for several AVP events in SoCal.) I recall reading that the beach VB tickets were in very high demand the last two or three olympics. The lack of Misty & Kerri (last year) and Kerri (this year) hasn't helped the AVP. But I think there is potential fanbase there; they just haven't tapped it effectively.
Regarding paying admission: they used to be able to support themselves almost entirely on sponsors. Free admission = more people to see the sponsors. I don't mind paying admission for a full day at the beach, though you will hear a few people whine about that.
Agree that the AVP needs to work with USAV and FIVB. Two-way street, of course.
Merchandising: agree it's been weak. I haven't even been able to find an AVP t-shirt I want to buy for the last couple of years.
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Post by bunnywailer on Jul 31, 2010 2:25:03 GMT -5
Bleh, this isn't the first time the AVP has gone bankrupt. Every AVP pro playing today and making money should thank Bill Berger and Dan Vrebolovich for bringing the AVP back from the brink in 1998 and converting from a player-run association (big mistake given the lack of brainpower and huge egos of a typical pro beach player) to a for-profit, private business entity.
Likewise, the women should thank Charlie Jackson for creating the BVA back in the early 2000's to fill the void created when the WPVA went belly up.
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