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Post by BearClause on Aug 30, 2011 10:56:13 GMT -5
The jump float is like a knuckleball in baseball. It has no spin which makes the flight of the ball hard to read. It may drop all of a sudden or it may go longer than expected. If the ball was coming with quite some pace, the ball is really coming straight to you and you as a passer have to decide (a) if it's going in or out and (b) if it's going to drop or fly. That's why the jump float serve is effective, if used properly ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Most jump floaters I've seen don't really seem to "knuckle" all that much. In order to get it to do that, minimal spin needs to be imparted on the ball. There needs to be some spin to get it to "dance" a bit though. I think the drop factor and the consistency is where it does better overall compared to topspin jumpers. The ability to hit a good standing float serve seems to be a lost art these days. I remember seeing some stellar float serves coming right at me, and trying to get the platform in the right position to receive can be frustrating when the ball is moving side to side.
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Post by karellen on Aug 30, 2011 11:24:27 GMT -5
You say --
"I will sit down with any coach of any program any time and not listen to him or her while he or she tells me about how great the jump float serve is for..."
But expect us to listen to your thoughts and give them some weight? It is a two way street.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 30, 2011 11:33:12 GMT -5
The jump float is like a knuckleball in baseball. It has no spin which makes the flight of the ball hard to read. It may drop all of a sudden or it may go longer than expected. If the ball was coming with quite some pace, the ball is really coming straight to you and you as a passer have to decide (a) if it's going in or out and (b) if it's going to drop or fly. That's why the jump float serve is effective, if used properly ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Most jump floaters I've seen don't really seem to "knuckle" all that much. In order to get it to do that, minimal spin needs to be imparted on the ball. There needs to be some spin to get it to "dance" a bit though. I think the drop factor and the consistency is where it does better overall compared to topspin jumpers. The ability to hit a good standing float serve seems to be a lost art these days. I remember seeing some stellar float serves coming right at me, and trying to get the platform in the right position to receive can be frustrating when the ball is moving side to side. Miyashiro had a nice standing float serve, though she won't be using it internationally if she does play libero. As for spin, about 1/2 to 1/4 of a rotation is probably ideal. I suspect spin is not as important to a volleyball float serve as it is to a baseball knuckleball, because a baseball has those significantly asymmetrical stitches. But assuming the volleyball is not perfectly round, that 1/2 of a spin should help it "dance".
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Post by ja on Aug 30, 2011 14:50:08 GMT -5
The efficiency of jump float depends mostly on two things. First, the point of the contact of player palm and ball, second on arm speed at the moment of contact. One of my players (she graduates last year) had 19 SA her junior year as a standup float server and top spin jump server. At her senior year she had 30 SA using jump float serve as her primary and stand up floater as a backup. Her average serve attempts number grew from 2.6 to 3.5 attempts per set. The difference between the speeds of her jump floater and standup was around 0.2 second.
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Post by Fluffhead on Aug 30, 2011 15:15:54 GMT -5
I will agree to an extent. The float jump serve is only moderately more effective than a good standing jump serve and obviously more difficult to execute. That being said, I think it's definitely a better serve so if you have somebody who's good at it, you should be using it.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Aug 30, 2011 15:45:52 GMT -5
I will agree to an extent. The float jump serve is only moderately more effective than a good standing jump serve and obviously more difficult to execute. Well, yeah, but that is because you are comparing it to a "good" standing jump serve. Meanwhile, how does a "good" jump float compare? Second, how readily can folks get a "good" standing jump serve as opposed to a "good" jump float? No, a good jump floater probably won't be as good as a 150 kph rocket jump serve. But since the number of people who can hit a 150 kph rocket jump serve is pretty small, it isn't a very effective approach. A jump floater is generally more effective than a standing float serve, but with about the same amount of error risk. Similarly, while it might not be as difficult to handle as a good jump serve, it also comes at much less risk of an error. It's not obvious that one should be better overall than the other (as I have pointed out a couple of times, it makes no sense to compare the maximum potential outcomes without also considering the likelyhood of achieving that maximum outcome). Then again, we have empirical data that attests to the effectiveness of the jump float overall, so we know it works. The rest is speculation about the mechanism to understand WHY it is better, not whether it is or not.
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Post by Garand on Aug 30, 2011 16:17:27 GMT -5
At the risk of hijacking this tread a little bit, can someone expand on the differences between a standing and jump float serves?
In a topspin jump serve, the approach and jump give a better angle and greater velocity to the ball, both good things. However, a floater needs to be in a fairly narrow range of speeds for maximum effect. This number seems to be in the 35 to 40 mph range. It should also have just a little rotation, maybe one-half to one revolution during its flight. Neither of these things are helped by an approach or jump (I think most players can achieve 35 mph without an approach). It's possible that a jump gives a flatter overall trajectory, and this might be useful. In that case, is it worth the added variables that are introduced with the approach and jump as opposed to a more consistent standing position?
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Post by planetasia01 on Aug 30, 2011 16:21:32 GMT -5
Is the women's side going to adopt some version of the dimpled ball (similar to the Mikasa used in international ball)? I heard that thing dances around like no other and makes long time players feel like freshmen again (when they're using it outdoor anyway)!
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Post by BearClause on Aug 30, 2011 16:42:54 GMT -5
At the risk of hijacking this tread a little bit, can someone expand on the differences between a standing and jump float serves? In a topspin jump serve, the approach and jump give a better angle and greater velocity to the ball, both good things. However, a floater needs to be in a fairly narrow range of speeds for maximum effect. This number seems to be in the 35 to 40 mph range. It should also have just a little rotation, maybe one-half to one revolution during its flight. Neither of these things are helped by an approach or jump (I think most players can achieve 35 mph without an approach). It's possible that a jump gives a flatter overall trajectory, and this might be useful. In that case, is it worth the added variables that are introduced with the approach and jump as opposed to a more consistent standing position? My understanding is that at a high level, the topspin jump serve would have to be hit pretty darn hard for it to be truly effective, and that most players don't really achieve that level. The server is generally relying on the receiver not being able to return a ball hit that hard terribly well, but runs an increased risk of the serve going into the net or out. It's been explained that with the topspin, the flight of the ball is generally more predictable, and most of the time I've seen them returned pretty easily at the high NCAA D-I level. I've certainly been in the crowd hearing others talk about how impressive those jump serves look, but few seem to realize that they're being passed right to the setter. The jump floater (even one that isn't truly "floating") has the element of unpredictable flight that can mean a bad pass leading to an out of system play.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Aug 30, 2011 16:44:49 GMT -5
Is the women's side going to adopt some version of the dimpled ball (similar to the Mikasa used in international ball)? I heard that thing dances around like no other and makes long time players feel like freshmen again (when they're using it outdoor anyway)! I love that ball. I've also noticed that it severely penalizes players who can't/don't pass jump floats with their hands.
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Post by pogoball on Aug 30, 2011 20:25:50 GMT -5
I would be interested in seeing statistics on error rates of jump float serves versus standing float serves.
It is much easier to hit a ball into the court from a higher point than a lower point, so I would guess that a person comfortable with a jump float is actually less likely to have a serving error than a standing float server.
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Post by BearClause on Aug 30, 2011 20:37:44 GMT -5
I would be interested in seeing statistics on error rates of jump float serves versus standing float serves. It is much easier to hit a ball into the court from a higher point than a lower point, so I would guess that a person comfortable with a jump float is actually less likely to have a serving error than a standing float server. The consistency of the toss and jump may be an issue. A jump float is also typically hit with a flatter trajectory. If the goal is to simply get in in, I think a standing float could be the most efficient. A higher trajectory with less force would probably yield the lowest error rates.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Aug 31, 2011 6:25:39 GMT -5
If the goal is to simply get in in,. Nobody has that goal (at least they better not or they will be worthless as a server), so it's irrelevant. It's just like I was saying above about having to consider the likelyhood that someone makes a good serve. You also have to consider the likelyhood that someone serves it "to simply get it in." Not very likely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2011 6:31:16 GMT -5
Is the women's side going to adopt some version of the dimpled ball (similar to the Mikasa used in international ball)? I heard that thing dances around like no other and makes long time players feel like freshmen again (when they're using it outdoor anyway)! I love that ball. I've also noticed that it severely penalizes players who can't/don't pass jump floats with their hands. one should always pass float serves with their hands. and if your opponent is very good at passing floats with their hands, it's probably better to serve them topspin jumps...
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Post by itsallrelative on Aug 31, 2011 8:46:39 GMT -5
Personally, as a coach, I wonder about the value of variation in service styles among a team.
For example, I probably had my best serving team ever this year in club--had a couple of nice jump top servers, three good standing float servers, and a jump floater. I made sure to arrange them so that there was variation between most of the servers.
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