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Post by redbeard2008 on Aug 13, 2012 11:07:12 GMT -5
If he wasn't concerned with Berg in the front row, I don't see that height would have been a factor in keeping Thompson on the bench. Thompson did have a solo stuff block in the match in which she started. More likely, passing was the problem and changing the setter wouldn't fix that. (I'm not sure, but I suspect the only way he could have replaced Davis with Miyashiro would have been if Davis was injured.) Are they playing two Libero rule in the Olympics? I didn't see any team dress two. Don't remember which teams, offhand, but I saw at least one and maybe two teams sub in a second libero.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 13, 2012 12:24:39 GMT -5
Losing focus has everything to do with coaching No it doesn't...losing focus is a mental issue and it can only be controlled by the player...not the coach Yes it does. It is something coaches need to prepare their players for. Hugh has had most of these players in international tournaments before so if this was their tendency he should have been prepped for it. Managing players egos and personalities is a huge part of coaching
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Post by predicatedefender on Aug 13, 2012 12:55:26 GMT -5
Losing focus has everything to do with coaching No it doesn't...losing focus is a mental issue and it can only be controlled by the player...not the coach Yes you are correct that it is ultimately upon the player but the coach is there to point things out that the player is not recognizing.
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Post by ciscokeed on Aug 13, 2012 13:14:38 GMT -5
guest and Sista- both of you don't understand the point of my post. Let's look at reality. Hugh built this team up to number one in the world, and was 5-0 and up one set when the wheels came off....don't you think he knew every possitibility to be prepared for? Do you think he is some kind of dumb %*$# who doesn't know his roster, or his players abilities or the things that happen, or the right people to bring in?? Do you think that he didn't have an answer for the situation they got in- DAMN RIGHT HE DID!!! but the players got into quicksand, and it wouldn't have mattered who he brought in... it just happens some times....you must not have coached women in your life to not understand how that rolls...the subs coming in off the bench were already immersed in the bizzare turnaround of the match.... stuff happens...and he may have believed that his players were going to turn it around any moment, but they didn't. But don't you dare shortchange the amazing job he did, as if you had better ideas or more answers than the man that put the roster and training together. Look, we all wanted gold, Hugh probably more than any of us, but sometimes stuff happens- and it ain't the friggin coaching!! The players-and I mean the whole damn team got mired in qucksand... and if you don't understand that, then you never played at a high level...
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 13, 2012 13:30:28 GMT -5
guest and Sista- both of you don't understand the point of my post. Let's look at reality. Hugh built this team up to number one in the world, and was 5-0 and up one set when the wheels came off....don't you think he knew every possitibility to be prepared for? Do you think he is some kind of dumb %*$# who doesn't know his roster, or his players abilities or the things that happen, or the right people to bring in?? Do you think that he didn't have an answer for the situation they got in- DAMN RIGHT HE DID!!! but the players got into quicksand, and it wouldn't have mattered who he brought in... it just happens some times....you must not have coached women in your life to not understand how that rolls...the subs coming in off the bench were already immersed in the bizzare turnaround of the match.... stuff happens...and he may have believed that his players were going to turn it around any moment, but they didn't. But don't you dare shortchange the amazing job he did, as if you had better ideas or more answers than the man that put the roster and training together. Look, we all wanted gold, Hugh probably more than any of us, but sometimes stuff happens- and it ain't the friggin coaching!! The players-and I mean the whole damn team got mired in qucksand... and if you don't understand that, then you never played at a high level... In retrospect, the one thing he could have tried that he didn't was bringing in Thompson. But it's possible that wouldn't have worked either.
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Post by bill on Aug 13, 2012 13:32:42 GMT -5
We should have learned three things: We need better setting.....there are probably a half dozen in Brazil who are better than what we had on our Olympic Team....we need a better libero, one who can PASS.....and we now we need to find someone who can replace three very good players who will undoubtedly be gone within a year or two.....but what is it with setters on both of our teams.....we just didn't measure up on either team, and if any of you Dogs out there think that your former setter is the answer to our setting problems on the women's side you need to get your heads screwed on straighter than they are! We also needed to lose in an earlier round because our players were way too cocky for their own good by the time we got into the GM match and just let the wheels fall off it was too damned late...we didn't know how to come back! But we weren't any worse than some of you who were talking smak prior to the GM match acting like it was just a formality!
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Post by redbeard2008 on Aug 13, 2012 13:34:26 GMT -5
One issue is a bias toward experience - because of the investment made in preparing players for international play, and especially for the Olympics, coaches tend to err toward the more experienced player, even if another, less experienced, player might be performing better.
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Post by Reach on Aug 13, 2012 13:41:49 GMT -5
We should have learned three things: We need better setting.....there are probably a half dozen in Brazil who are better than what we had on our Olympic Team....we need a better libero, one who can PASS.....and we now we need to find someone who can replace three very good players who will undoubtedly be gone within a year or two.....but what is it with setters on both of our teams.....we just didn't measure up on either team, and if any of you Dogs out there think that your former setter is the answer to our setting problems on the women's side you need to get your heads screwed on straighter than they are! We also needed to lose in an earlier round because our players were way too cocky for their own good by the time we got into the GM match and just let the wheels fall off it was too damned late...we didn't know how to come back! But we weren't any worse than some of you who were talking smak prior to the GM match acting like it was just a formality! You must just be an olympic bandwagon watcher. If you knew much about international volleyball you'd know that the United States has a stock pile of amazing setters that countries, including Brazil would like. Part of the problem Brazil has had, besides injuries, has been the lack of quality setter since Fafao retired. Even at these games, Coach Ze couldn't decide on who the starter was, becasue both were so inconsistent. We are lucky to have Berg. She is/was one of the best at the games. We do need a better libero but Nicole Davis is the best we have. We need to lose? No, we had one bad match at the wrong time and the other team had their best. Your tone suggests that this is all Berg and Davis fault for loosing. You are sorely mistaken. No one on the team performed well, Tom was the best, but she wasn't stellar that day. Our terrible setter Berg and horrendous Libero Davis must have had luck on their side when they beat Brazil the 6 prior meetings. Including the win in pool play.
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Post by Reach on Aug 13, 2012 13:46:19 GMT -5
The biggest mistake, imo was not taking a 4th outside. Tama, may be the future, but added little to these games. A forth outside, be it Richards or Barboza would have seen the floor in that last match. The way Richards was playing makes me think she could have been the difference maker.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Aug 13, 2012 15:06:07 GMT -5
The biggest mistake, imo was not taking a 4th outside. Tama, may be the future, but added little to these games. A forth outside, be it Richards or Barboza would have seen the floor in that last match. The way Richards was playing makes me think she could have been the difference maker. Except Tama was also the backup libero, in case Davis went down to injury. Even if you don't use her, you take her. Since we seldom used the third OH (Hodge), I don't see a fourth OH making a difference. The biggest problem against Brazil was defense and passing. In system we're unbeatable, but out of system it is another matter. One rule change that might have helped would be to allow coaches to designate a regular player as a second libero. That would have allowed subbing Miyashiro for Davis. It could be argued that would be better than allowing two liberos, since so few teams chose to bring a second libero.
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Post by mikegarrison on Aug 13, 2012 15:33:46 GMT -5
The biggest mistake, imo was not taking a 4th outside. Tama, may be the future, but added little to these games. A forth outside, be it Richards or Barboza would have seen the floor in that last match. The way Richards was playing makes me think she could have been the difference maker. Except Tama was also the backup libero, in case Davis went down to injury. Even if you don't use her, you take her. Since we seldom used the third OH (Hodge), I don't see a fourth OH making a difference. The biggest problem against Brazil was defense and passing. In system we're unbeatable, but out of system it is another matter. One rule change that might have helped would be to allow coaches to designate a regular player as a second libero. That would have allowed subbing Miyashiro for Davis. It could be argued that would be better than allowing two liberos, since so few teams chose to bring a second libero. If we had brought a fourth OH, then Tom would have been our emergency libero. But we lose her serving if that happens.
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Post by bill on Aug 13, 2012 17:25:57 GMT -5
We should have learned three things: We need better setting.....there are probably a half dozen in Brazil who are better than what we had on our Olympic Team....we need a better libero, one who can PASS.....and we now we need to find someone who can replace three very good players who will undoubtedly be gone within a year or two.....but what is it with setters on both of our teams.....we just didn't measure up on either team, and if any of you Dogs out there think that your former setter is the answer to our setting problems on the women's side you need to get your heads screwed on straighter than they are! We also needed to lose in an earlier round because our players were way too cocky for their own good by the time we got into the GM match and just let the wheels fall off it was too damned late...we didn't know how to come back! But we weren't any worse than some of you who were talking smak prior to the GM match acting like it was just a formality! You must just be an olympic bandwagon watcher. If you knew much about international volleyball you'd know that the United States has a stock pile of amazing setters that countries, including Brazil would like. Part of the problem Brazil has had, besides injuries, has been the lack of quality setter since Fafao retired. Even at these games, Coach Ze couldn't decide on who the starter was, becasue both were so inconsistent. We are lucky to have Berg. She is/was one of the best at the games. We do need a better libero but Nicole Davis is the best we have. We need to lose? No, we had one bad match at the wrong time and the other team had their best. Your tone suggests that this is all Berg and Davis fault for loosing. You are sorely mistaken. No one on the team performed well, Tom was the best, but she wasn't stellar that day. Our terrible setter Berg and horrendous Libero Davis must have had luck on their side when they beat Brazil the 6 prior meetings. Including the win in pool play. Seems to me that they got better or we got worse...or was it bad coaching....at any rate, they won, we lost, and it was a shame!
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Post by leftcoaster71 on Aug 13, 2012 18:11:47 GMT -5
The biggest mistake, imo was not taking a 4th outside. Tama, may be the future, but added little to these games. A forth outside, be it Richards or Barboza would have seen the floor in that last match. The way Richards was playing makes me think she could have been the difference maker. Except Tama was also the backup libero, in case Davis went down to injury. Even if you don't use her, you take her. Since we seldom used the third OH (Hodge), I don't see a fourth OH making a difference. The biggest problem against Brazil was defense and passing. In system we're unbeatable, but out of system it is another matter. One rule change that might have helped would be to allow coaches to designate a regular player as a second libero. That would have allowed subbing Miyashiro for Davis. It could be argued that would be better than allowing two liberos, since so few teams chose to bring a second libero. I think the decision between back up libero vs. 4th OH was sealed in the WGP when Davis had her slight injury.
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Aug 13, 2012 19:45:24 GMT -5
did anyone watch the match - Brazil was playing fantastic.
There were signs the 1st set. Brazil could not terminate down the line, kept hitting out. Cause if they could have, that was about 5 or so points and it's not so lop-sided. Once they got rhythm, that was it. In retrospect, we just played bad - just ask the US men, at least the women had their bad match in the finals and not the quarters.
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Post by foreignball on Aug 13, 2012 20:17:09 GMT -5
It is out of topic but..... I've noticed that at this whole tournament (both men and women): - The GM and BM contenders (both men and women) came out from the same preliminary pool. - The teams who finished higher in pool play finished lower overall - In 3 out of 4 medal games the teams met 2nd time and all 1st match losers came on top in the medal game. ?
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