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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 30, 2014 22:41:11 GMT -5
It "seems" that some pretty wild serves (non jump serves, specifically) are the result of standing some distance from the service line, IMHO...When pros are not jump serving, I don't seem to notice that they serve very far off the line. Why not? I would think the float would be more effective served from further back. Would the extra time it takes to get into defensive position be the reason or is it "just not that big of a difference"...
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Post by Semp12 on Jan 31, 2014 7:36:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure there much of any difference. Besides, the amount of fast steps necessary to get into the court multiplied by the amount of serves over the course of a tournament could really build up for teams looking to advance far. Why did you get blown out in the finals and look gassed? Oh I served from 10 feet behind the court and sprinted in every time..
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 31, 2014 12:33:04 GMT -5
Semp12....I hear ya...Its the "much of a difference" factor that I still wonder about. With most competitive games going to 21-19, 18 or 17, it is those "differences" that make, well, a difference...LOL....
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Post by boxarox on Feb 3, 2014 0:10:49 GMT -5
I've wondered the same thing. For the blocker it may simply be the extra time it would take to cover the distance to the net, which changes the dynamic in setting up for the block, and gives less time to back off the net if that's needed. But for the "back" player, yeah, why not?
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Post by sideou7 on Feb 3, 2014 12:53:59 GMT -5
i agree. the little bit of extra time it takes a float serve to get across the net can really mess with opponents. especially if it's a jump float. it's a good mix up to test how good your opponent's concentration is. i also think taking off a few steps behind the service line can benefit the jump (top spin) serve as well. most of the time jump serves go long or hit the top of the net. launching a few steps back can help if you really want to rip it.
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Post by vb4Him on Feb 3, 2014 21:41:41 GMT -5
I know that indoors, we coach the kids to serve their float -- standing or jump, doesn't matter -- from as far back as possible, while still being able to hit their spot. The longer the distance traveled, the more the float in the eyes of the receiver.
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Post by volleyballjim on Feb 3, 2014 22:09:11 GMT -5
vb4H: I hear ya, now we need to hear why the pro's DON'T do it on the AVP tour. At least the non-blocking server as volei pointed out.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Feb 4, 2014 10:40:54 GMT -5
vb4H: I hear ya, now we need to hear why the pro's DON'T do it on the AVP tour. At least the non-blocking server as volei pointed out. Ok Jim, I've been thinking about this for a while trying to put it into words. Reasons I wouldn't back up to float serve: 1. tougher to serve it short. While you can serve short from further back, you increase flight time for reaction, and it brings the net into play more(less accurate from further distance). 2. tougher to serve it on the back line. Same as above, the farther you move away, the harder it is to be accurate & more flight time = more reaction time. 3. Less angles. I like to serve across a player, getting them to pass outside their body on their line side (float or Jumper), whether it's standing on the line and serving it straight down the line or serving angle to the across sideline short or deep. I like this spot as I think it has the highest chances of the person not passing to the best setting location (possibly forcing a trap set next to the pin for instance). If you back up 10-12 feet, you have to move to a more centered serving position. Not saying directly in the middle, but off the line some to take away the antenna being in play. By doing this, the player receiving serve will generally be able to get behind it. Now you are just hoping the serve moves enough to cause a complete shank. |
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Post by volleyballjim on Feb 4, 2014 12:15:47 GMT -5
JB-Got it! The "short" factor seems really important and "get that". I guess at the pro level, reaction time is "giving more resources to the opponent"...works great at the "lower levels" though ; - ) AND, I get the angle thing...that makes sense as the farther away, eventually your serving a straight serve no matter where your starting point, relatively....Interesting! Thanks!
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Post by JB Southpaw on Feb 4, 2014 13:40:40 GMT -5
JB-Got it! The "short" factor seems really important and "get that". I guess at the pro level, reaction time is "giving more resources to the opponent"...works great at the "lower levels" though ; - ) AND, I get the angle thing...that makes sense as the farther away, eventually your serving a straight serve no matter where your starting point, relatively....Interesting! Thanks! Yeah, tons of factors go into it, for me. Who I'm playing, who I'm playing with. If I'm playing w/ a big block for a partner who can't really dig, I'll server easier because too tough a serve and big guy has to drop favors the other team. I want to be "in system" on defense. A lot of serving I equate to pitching in baseball. If you're throwing 96mph, that's great! but if you don't change location, release point and speed eventually the other team will get their timing down. Jamie Moyer, Greg Maddox (SP) pitched for EVER because they could hit the corners at different speeds never throwing over 92 (average Fastball speed). When I tore my Labrum I moved to float serving(needed to save my swings b/c I got EVERY serve playing w/ Dave Finley). At time I was playing Open in Florida (late 90s), I felt like I still needed to be able to "score from the baseline" to compete at that level. I really started thinking about how to take players out of system without powering a jump-serve, granted this was on the big court. I started squaring up the person I wanted to serve, this allowed me to be able to make him move one way or the the other without adjusting my arm swing too much. Short down the line, short down the line, deep husband/wife, deep down the line, etc.. All of a sudden I'd have this guy on a yo-yo having to defend his whole side of the court. To me a jump-server can get too consistent in placement, and pre-contact routine. The biggest thing I got out of this, was understanding what people were trying to do to me serving. I concentrated more durning serve receive watching the toss height, inside/outside shoulder, jump, arm speed. THIS made me a better passer in serve receive. (sorry for going on, I could converse about Vball strategy all day!) |
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Post by guest2 on Feb 4, 2014 13:48:20 GMT -5
Doesn't seem like many people really emphasize the "float" element of float serving anymore. Its mainly positional etc. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who had a really great float serve outdoors
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Post by JB Southpaw on Feb 4, 2014 14:13:56 GMT -5
Doesn't seem like many people really emphasize the "float" element of float serving anymore. Its mainly positional etc. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who had a really great float serve outdoors I'd agree! A nice deep floater to the chest is an awesome weapon. I do think court size has hurt the floater a bit. I copied Pat Powers floater, thought it was the best on the beach back then. |
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Post by kro2488 on Feb 4, 2014 17:54:59 GMT -5
Doesn't seem like many people really emphasize the "float" element of float serving anymore. Its mainly positional etc. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who had a really great float serve outdoors I'd agree! A nice deep floater to the chest is an awesome weapon. I do think court size has hurt the floater a bit. I copied Pat Powers floater, thought it was the best on the beach back then. How you contact the ball and follow through or don't makes all the difference the form, and if theirs any wind as well. I've noticed when I float serve if i mi%*$# the ball even a little bit it just becomes a lolly pop serve with side spin, then your like OH SH-...and it gets crushed if your playing with ppl who can actually hit the ball hard. |
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Post by kro2488 on Feb 4, 2014 17:57:16 GMT -5
i can't jump serve so i'd rather do the floater than a standing top sin though, cuz it has no real trajectory.
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Post by guest2 on Feb 4, 2014 18:02:05 GMT -5
Doesn't seem like many people really emphasize the "float" element of float serving anymore. Its mainly positional etc. I cant remember the last time I played against someone who had a really great float serve outdoors I'd agree! A nice deep floater to the chest is an awesome weapon. I do think court size has hurt the floater a bit. I copied Pat Powers floater, thought it was the best on the beach back then. Its funny one of the things I remember about Pat's serve (and I agree with you to a large extent) is that when he was tired he would miss the occasional floater really, really badly |
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