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Post by klazk on May 6, 2014 10:01:56 GMT -5
I believe the rules you are referring to were proposed before the 2013 tour. However the player protested and got them removed.
I am not aware of any current restrictions on Opens. However the national federations are the gatekeepers, so maybe USAV has some unwritten guidelines this year in the interest of building up younger teams. Per the 2014 regulations "Each National Federation is the sole responsible entity to enter team(s) in an FIVB Beach volleyball event(s) through the BVIS at their entire discretion. The qualified place(s) therefore belong to the National Federation(s) concerned; however the points always remain with the
athlete(s)."
Another factor that could be playing in the decision is points. For every open early in the year that teams are playing, they are likely pushing Grand Slam finishes from last year off their point total. So for some players/teams, playing a bunch of opens at the beginning of the year could affect seeding (or hypothetically even main draw versus qualifier) in the higher prize money, more point grand slams starting in June.
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Post by johnbar on May 6, 2014 11:39:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Klazk.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on May 6, 2014 11:46:13 GMT -5
It comes down to one thing, really: money. Puerto Vallarta has a $75,000 purse, as opposed to 400-500K for a Grand Slam. It just isn't worth it to make that trip for the top teams. Fuzhou made sense, because it was well positioned by geography and timing for high-ranked teams to play in it. But most of the opens are going to have the kind of field we're seeing in PV.
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Post by klazk on May 6, 2014 12:11:05 GMT -5
I completely missed that change from last year. The Open's prize money is almost half of what they were last year.
So what FIVB couldn't control by rule, they are controlling with dollars.
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Post by guest2 on May 6, 2014 12:28:45 GMT -5
It comes down to one thing, really: money. Puerto Vallarta has a $75,000 purse, as opposed to 400-500K for a Grand Slam. It just isn't worth it to make that trip for the top teams. Fuzhou made sense, because it was well positioned by geography and timing for high-ranked teams to play in it. But most of the opens are going to have the kind of field we're seeing in PV. I see that if the Open is in Russia or somehwere, but in three weeks there will be an AVP tournament in Florida where the money is the same (I think they are both 75k right?) but no support from USAV in terms of flights, hotels etc. Why spend 5-6 hours flying to Florida, rather than 2-3 to get to Mexico? I guess the diminished competition, but if you are one of the top teams, you have to figure you are making semis at least at Puerto Vallarta right? |
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Post by camkerr on May 6, 2014 13:22:58 GMT -5
I completely missed that change from last year. The Open's prize money is almost half of what they were last year. So what FIVB couldn't control by rule, they are controlling with dollars. The points for Opens this year are also different. Placing 1st-5th are the same, but after that you're earning fewer points. So you can place 17th at a Grand Slam, get the exact same points as a 9th at an Open, but you're making $5000 more at the Grand Slam. Edit: Here's the link to the post for this week's open with all live streams included: volleyballsourcemag.com/news/2014/5/6/fivb-2014-puerto-vallarta-open |
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Post by klazk on May 6, 2014 13:25:34 GMT -5
If you compare last year AVP payouts in a 75k tournament to the Fuzhou payouts, the AVP is more at each level because the FIVB pays out to 32 teams, where the AVP events are only 16 team main draws.
I know you are still going to argue it isn't enough of a difference in terms of time and travel expense, but thought it was worth noting.
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Post by wang pu on May 6, 2014 15:27:36 GMT -5
Hyden & Bourne will have a good chance to win their pool. They are seeded 12th, which will put them in the host countries #5 seed pool. Montgomery-Slick will also be in that pool. Actually, Hyden/Bourne should be seeded 13th assuming no withdrawals. The host country will get a team bumped up to the #9 seed, which will push Hyden/Bourne down. Also, because Virgen/Ontiveros are in the top 8, they will get the #1 seed. So the 4 seed in their pool would be Kufa, R.-Hadrava from the Czech Republic. Does the host country always get the #1 and #9 seed? Assuming that it benefits them. |
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Post by klazk on May 6, 2014 15:44:27 GMT -5
No. This year, they get the #1 seed only if the team is in the top 8.
If both teams in top 8, home country gets #1 and whatever seed of second team earns by their points.
If one team in top 8 and other team below top 8, home country gets #1 and #9.
If both teams are out of top 8, home country gets #9 and #10.
Last year they always got the #1 and #8 (unless second team would be higher than #8, in which case they got seed determined by points).
Additionally, home country gets a wildcard. Wildcard gets seeded wherever their points put them (except no two home country teams can be in the same pool).
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on May 6, 2014 16:12:19 GMT -5
It comes down to one thing, really: money. Puerto Vallarta has a $75,000 purse, as opposed to 400-500K for a Grand Slam. It just isn't worth it to make that trip for the top teams. Fuzhou made sense, because it was well positioned by geography and timing for high-ranked teams to play in it. But most of the opens are going to have the kind of field we're seeing in PV. I see that if the Open is in Russia or somehwere, but in three weeks there will be an AVP tournament in Florida where the money is the same (I think they are both 75k right?) but no support from USAV in terms of flights, hotels etc. Why spend 5-6 hours flying to Florida, rather than 2-3 to get to Mexico? I guess the diminished competition, but if you are one of the top teams, you have to figure you are making semis at least at Puerto Vallarta right? Except all the players are under contract to the AVP, and have no choice about going to Florida (without special dispensation from the AVP). And while it's true that USAV isn't paying travel etc., the top players are being taken care of by the AVP. |
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Post by guest2 on May 6, 2014 16:37:27 GMT -5
I see that if the Open is in Russia or somehwere, but in three weeks there will be an AVP tournament in Florida where the money is the same (I think they are both 75k right?) but no support from USAV in terms of flights, hotels etc. Why spend 5-6 hours flying to Florida, rather than 2-3 to get to Mexico? I guess the diminished competition, but if you are one of the top teams, you have to figure you are making semis at least at Puerto Vallarta right? Except all the players are under contract to the AVP, and have no choice about going to Florida (without special dispensation from the AVP). And while it's true that USAV isn't paying travel etc., the top players are being taken care of by the AVP. How do those AVP contracts work? What does "taken care of" mean beyond what any qualifier would get if they won the same amount of games. The 32 versus 16 payout makes sense as a reason, but why is the AVP having 16 team main draws? |
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 7, 2014 12:28:25 GMT -5
Some results are coming in:
Pool E
Brunner-Rogers USA [5] Boehm-Durant AUS [28] 2-0 (22-20, 21-18) 0:37
Pool D
Montgomery-Slick USA [13] Dressler-Kunert AUT [20] 1-2 (19-21, 21-19, 14-16) 0:58
This Match should be finishing up any minute:
Pool F
Hyden-Bourne USA [11] Keenan-Mayer USA [27]
Each Men's teams have 2 matches today.
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Post by klazk on May 7, 2014 12:31:10 GMT -5
Hyden-Bourne USA [11] Keenan-Mayer USA [27] 2-1 (21-12, 19-21, 15-11) 0:53
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Post by JB Southpaw on May 7, 2014 12:37:15 GMT -5
Hyden-Bourne USA [11] Keenan-Mayer USA [27] 2-1 (21-12, 19-21, 15-11) 0:53 Figured it would go 3. Too much familiarity. |
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Post by vbpr on May 7, 2014 14:42:23 GMT -5
It comes down to one thing, really: money. Puerto Vallarta has a $75,000 purse, as opposed to 400-500K for a Grand Slam. It just isn't worth it to make that trip for the top teams. Fuzhou made sense, because it was well positioned by geography and timing for high-ranked teams to play in it. But most of the opens are going to have the kind of field we're seeing in PV. I think, mostly, it's about points. For instance, Phil/Rosie will drop 800 points from the Rome GS 2013 the minute they play in another FIVB tournament. Winning the Puerto Vallarta Open will earn back only 500 points. I suppose a few too many of these could lower their standing with the USAV and worse case, force them into Country Quotas. |
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