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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 3, 2014 7:17:38 GMT -5
People always go to Brad. He is a much inferior passer, a predictable hitter, and not that dynamic. I've watched Brad for years and with the exception of his jump serve (which was a terror in the games I saw this weekend) he has not improved much at all. He should be married to Summer Ross not April Ross, then they could have a giant volleyball playing kid that could run the 40 in six and a half minutes. Guest2, you must have the most ridiculous standards ever. I feel sorry for anyone who works for you. Summer comes in as the #1 seed and gets 3rd, while Brad gets his first victory playing great and you, representing the fans of volleyball, unleash something like that. I get it - kinda - when people go off on multi-million dollar salary players from major sports. But we're talking about a sport where right now most players barely make more than the poverty level, and as a reward, they get fans like you. Not exactly ideal. Steve, are you getting on him because it was blunt(but true)? or because he is wrong? you never really said anything except it was bad of guest2 to make this post. There are reasons Brad hasn't won in the past, but I tell you he carried himself different this tournament. Even in the early matches, ones I thought they'd lose and didn't. Maybe playing in the Main draw in the Mex. FIVB has him more motivated. But his faults are still there, of the elite teams his passing is not elite and his foot speed won't change, but this weekend his strengths outweighed his weaknesses.
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Post by stevek on Jun 3, 2014 10:19:25 GMT -5
Guest2, you must have the most ridiculous standards ever. I feel sorry for anyone who works for you. Summer comes in as the #1 seed and gets 3rd, while Brad gets his first victory playing great and you, representing the fans of volleyball, unleash something like that. I get it - kinda - when people go off on multi-million dollar salary players from major sports. But we're talking about a sport where right now most players barely make more than the poverty level, and as a reward, they get fans like you. Not exactly ideal. Steve, are you getting on him because it was blunt(but true)? or because he is wrong? you never really said anything except it was bad of guest2 to make this post. There are reasons Brad hasn't won in the past, but I tell you he carried himself different this tournament. Even in the early matches, ones I thought they'd lose and didn't. Maybe playing in the Main draw in the Mex. FIVB has him more motivated. But his faults are still there, of the elite teams his passing is not elite and his foot speed won't change, but this weekend his strengths outweighed his weaknesses. Listen, I am all for critiquing, but stuff like Guest2 said is usually reserved for a player like Brad after 2 5ths and a 7th or something like that, not after his first tournament win - a tournament where he and Mayer took down the US's top two teams along the way. My point is we should provide the dude some respect - no matter what led to it, he came through and won a tough tournament. We'll see what happens. I have always liked Brad and at one point (maybe back in 08 or 09) I thought he might be on the edge of joining the elite. I'm not there any more, for all the reasons listed above, but I am happy to see the guy get his first win.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jun 3, 2014 12:38:29 GMT -5
I tell ya, when you cross the "lines" into the court, gloves are off, sentiment left at the umbrella stand. No different than when us hacks get out there and fence away! Nobody LIKES to lose and EVERYBODY is playing at varying levels of 100%...If you think ANYONE plays at 100%, first pick the category (fitness, skill, execution, intelligence, shot calling, etc.), then tell me where that player fell in EACH AND EVERY CATEGORY. Hey baseball players play a 2 1/2 hour game where they field 5-10 balls AT MOST, same for most other sports...I remember Camacho showing up at Santa Barbara at 8am and ran though the day in the "Q"...Try THAT MLB, NBA, NFL . . .
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Post by thenetset on Jun 3, 2014 15:17:54 GMT -5
I know the jokes about this player are pretty passe, but I gotta say I love the coincidence of this thread title appearing above "Is this the worst song of the rock & roll era?" from Off the Net on the VT main page
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Jun 3, 2014 15:52:53 GMT -5
I think the criticisms I've seen on this thread regarding Keenan are pretty valid. His competitive nature has always been a question mark. He's a very gifted volleyball player, but that only gets you so far. The best players are the best because they combine their natural talent with a huge work ethic. Nobody out-trained Karch or works harder than Kerri Walsh. Brad has never shown that kind of commitment to date, and it can be frustrating to watch because when he really wants to play, he's a beast.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 3, 2014 18:52:31 GMT -5
I think the criticisms I've seen on this thread regarding Keenan are pretty valid. His competitive nature has always been a question mark. He's a very gifted volleyball player, but that only gets you so far. The best players are the best because they combine their natural talent with a huge work ethic. Nobody out-trained Karch or works harder than Kerri Walsh. Brad has never shown that kind of commitment to date, and it can be frustrating to watch because when he really wants to play, he's a beast. TThat brings up a more interesting question, "which player on each side, who is not now elite, could become elite, if they adopted Steffes-ian rigor in their training?" My nominees would be Nicole Branagh for the women (if she is not retired) and Doherty or maybe Andre Belov for the men. I dont really know that either of those guys dont train hard, but I think if Belov had committed to becoming a defender maybe 3 years ago or so and worked hard at it, he could be great.
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Post by volleyballer4life on Jun 4, 2014 13:12:45 GMT -5
Maybe my fuse with things like this is a bit shorter after being affiliated with juniors club this year, but I gotta be honest - this thread is sad to me.
There's one person that has the right to ask the OP's question, and that's John Mayer. They played together before, then split, and are now back together - anyone know the inside reasons why? Does John even want to venture on the "Road to Rio"? They break through to win the first tourney of the year, and instead of us getting excited that perhaps they're ready to add some more balance to the upper echelon of our sport, the peanut gallery decides to use it as an opportunity to bash a player that, regardless of what you think of him athletically, plays at a level that none of us have probably come remotely close to (And cry 6'8 you want, for every Keenan there are hundreds of tall guys that can barely walk a straight line on the court, let alone actually compete at the open level).
Truth be told, I follow a lot of players but couldn't tell you much about Keenan. I do remember the hype when he first hopped on the beach, and feel like every time I've heard about him it's usually been about some injury he's attempting to play through. Sounds like a guy with some potential that people feel hasn't been properly groomed. But we as a society judge world-class athletes 24/7, hailing the victors and criticizing the "losers" - and we wonder why our youth plays so tentatively, more afraid to make mistakes instead of fearlessly attempting to make the play. Now we criticize the winners? What a waste of social media.
This board typically impresses me with well-thought out analytical feedback on our athletes compared to your typical online forum, but this thread is a joke. I understand the Rosie/Phil dialogue because we've seen them both play as SUCH a higher intensity with former partners - it's a lot easier to justify that conversation. Perhaps Keenan is as tired of the results he's had over the years as all of you are - maybe this is the year he decides to get serious. And if not, and Mayer decides he doesn't want to play with Keenan, he'll have options. Until then, let's give a little credit to them for starting their AVP season with a bang - the more teams that can make a legitimate push to win a tournament, the more exciting it is to follow. And in case you're wondering, this is coming from a guy who also enjoys Mayer's style/all-around skill set - thought he was underrated the last time I saw him in person, and love using him as a role model for the lefties I coach in the sand (Sorry Adrian).
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Post by guest2 on Jun 4, 2014 14:36:27 GMT -5
Normally I wouldnt indulge in an attack on another poster, but since you did, this is an absolutely terrible post, it evinces a stereotypically kindergartenish "why can't we all be best friends forever" and relies on a series of dubious assertions that are unsupported by anything. Maybe my fuse with things like this is a bit shorter after being affiliated with juniors club this year, but I gotta be honest - this thread is sad to me. There's one person that has the right to ask the OP's question, and that's John Mayer. The right? You must be kidding about this? The right? Yes all people have the right to a workplace free of racial prejudice, to make decisions about how to raise their children, and to speak their minds, unless of course it regards a professional beach volleyball team? Get your rhetoric under control. This isn't people criticizing 12 year old girls who are just trying to have fun and do their best. This is people questioning which team a professional athletes should be on and why. Look at any professional sport and at least a third of the media attention is on who is on which team, when they will switch, why they might switch. Much of that discussion is about the strengths and weaknesses of the players on a particular team. Go to ESPN, SI.com, or any other sports website, click on any sport, and you will find criticism much worseThey played together before, then split, and are now back together - anyone know the inside reasons why? Does John even want to venture on the "Road to Rio"? They break through to win the first tourney of the year, and instead of us getting excited that perhaps they're ready to add some more balance to the upper echelon of our sport, When Kent Steffes won his first tournament with Jon Stevenson people immediately began speculating when he would dump Jon and get a better partner, when Phil won his first with Nick, there was widespread speculation about when Phil would get a new partner, When AJ won with Bruk, everyone wondered if this would prolong AJ's time with a subpar partner. Thats the way things work when a player, John Mayer in this case, carries a weaker player to success neither has really reached before (excepting John's single win with Nygaard)It doesnt even have to be a win, when BJ and Jake made their great run to 5th or 7th at Manhattan one year, they werent even eliminated when people started talking about potential new partners for BJthe peanut gallery decides to use it as an opportunity to bash a player that, regardless of what you think of him athletically, plays at a level that none of us have probably come remotely close to (And cry 6'8 you want, for every Keenan there are hundreds of tall guys that can barely walk a straight line on the court, let alone actually compete at the open level). (This is and has always been the dumbest argument made on every sports message board and in most sports conversations in the history of the world, "how dare you criticize when he is better than you" Every player in the NBA is better than Jeff Van Gundy, most are better than Steve Kerr ever was, and yet they sit in judgment each week on TNT. How dare they? Sports exist to be watched and discussed. Its their reason for existing. Plus saying that Brad is slow and doesnt work that hard is no more bashing him than saying the Sun sets every night is bashing the SunTruth be told, I follow a lot of players but couldn't tell you much about Keenan. I do remember the hype when he first hopped on the beach, and feel like every time I've heard about him it's usually been about some injury he's attempting to play through. Sounds like a guy with some potential that people feel hasn't been properly groomed. Hasn't properly been groomed? He is 32, he should take responsibility for his own career. He had world class coaching at Pepperdine from from Marv Dunphy, he has a coach now, he has had opportunities to work with other coaches as part of the USA volleyball programBut we as a society judge world-class athletes 24/7, hailing the victors and criticizing the "losers" - and we wonder why our youth plays so tentatively, more afraid to make mistakes instead of fearlessly attempting to make the play. Now we criticize the winners? What a waste of social media. Wow, that is an absolutely ridiculous correlation to draw. Besides the dubious assertion of Brad Keenan as a world class athlete, the fact that our youth play tentatively because people criticize pro athletes? Really? There are a thousand more likely reasons even if you adopt that incredibly dubious proposition (that young athletes play tentatively). How about that more kids play sports now than played in the past, so that now there are more kids playing who are less bold by nature, how about overbearing parents and excessive coaching? How about greater knowledge of injuries and their consequences? I don't think you are right that kids are more tentative now, but even if its true, the odds that your explanation is the cause are infintesimalThis board typically impresses me with well-thought out analytical feedback on our athletes compared to your typical online forum, but this thread is a joke. I understand the Rosie/Phil dialogue because we've seen them both play as SUCH a higher intensity with former partners - it's a lot easier to justify that conversation. To justify a conversation? Come on, you are trolling now right? I don't want to sound more negative about Keenan than I am, but he has been putting in less than full effort for years. As a consumer of the sport, why should i accept that when he, and other players like Rosie on occasion, want us to come out, spend our money, etc. Why is it wrong to object if they dont give us their bestPerhaps Keenan is as tired of the results he's had over the years as all of you are - maybe this is the year he decides to get serious. And if not, and Mayer decides he doesn't want to play with Keenan, he'll have options. Until then, let's give a little credit to them for starting their AVP season with a bang - the more teams that can make a legitimate push to win a tournament, the more exciting it is to follow. And in case you're wondering, this is coming from a guy who also enjoys Mayer's style/all-around skill set - thought he was underrated the last time I saw him in person, and love using him as a role model for the lefties I coach in the sand (Sorry Adrian). No one called Brad stupid, made personal attacks on him, or said anything regarding anything other than his volleyball and physical skills. Talking about players and teams and praising and criticizing them is the purpose of this board
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jun 4, 2014 16:30:51 GMT -5
kind of wish VBGod was around for this thread....
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Post by Semp12 on Jun 4, 2014 17:33:22 GMT -5
Maybe my fuse with things like this is a bit shorter after being affiliated with juniors club this year, but I gotta be honest - this thread is sad to me. There's one person that has the right to ask the OP's question, and that's John Mayer. They played together before, then split, and are now back together - anyone know the inside reasons why? Does John even want to venture on the "Road to Rio"? They break through to win the first tourney of the year, and instead of us getting excited that perhaps they're ready to add some more balance to the upper echelon of our sport, the peanut gallery decides to use it as an opportunity to bash a player that, regardless of what you think of him athletically, plays at a level that none of us have probably come remotely close to (And cry 6'8 you want, for every Keenan there are hundreds of tall guys that can barely walk a straight line on the court, let alone actually compete at the open level). Truth be told, I follow a lot of players but couldn't tell you much about Keenan. I do remember the hype when he first hopped on the beach, and feel like every time I've heard about him it's usually been about some injury he's attempting to play through. Sounds like a guy with some potential that people feel hasn't been properly groomed. But we as a society judge world-class athletes 24/7, hailing the victors and criticizing the "losers" - and we wonder why our youth plays so tentatively, more afraid to make mistakes instead of fearlessly attempting to make the play. Now we criticize the winners? What a waste of social media. This board typically impresses me with well-thought out analytical feedback on our athletes compared to your typical online forum, but this thread is a joke. I understand the Rosie/Phil dialogue because we've seen them both play as SUCH a higher intensity with former partners - it's a lot easier to justify that conversation. Perhaps Keenan is as tired of the results he's had over the years as all of you are - maybe this is the year he decides to get serious. And if not, and Mayer decides he doesn't want to play with Keenan, he'll have options. Until then, let's give a little credit to them for starting their AVP season with a bang - the more teams that can make a legitimate push to win a tournament, the more exciting it is to follow. And in case you're wondering, this is coming from a guy who also enjoys Mayer's style/all-around skill set - thought he was underrated the last time I saw him in person, and love using him as a role model for the lefties I coach in the sand (Sorry Adrian). In my opinion, their split was better for both of them back in the late 2000's. Keenan got lucky and played with some partners that again in my opinion, were way above him (Hyden and Lucena especially, but probably every single one actually). He is certainly not a "fan favorite" by any means and his potential ship has sailed in most peoples opinions. However, beach is crazy like that here in the US in that experience and your 30's clearly give you an advantage. As for using Mayer as the role model for lefties, he is still an athletic stud. Just look at Adrian and the kids have to believe any of them can play AVP. He doesn't look like a beach volleyball player.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jun 5, 2014 1:40:55 GMT -5
VB4L: When the thread STARTS OUT "Congrats Brad & John", I think that dilutes your overall critique. Beach Volleyball fans are not "fans" in the "fanatical" definition sense, but grass-roots people who play, love and wonder about the game. I think Brad is a SUPER nice guy etc., but wondered "what happened" over the years that did not allow him to win until, well yesterday, relatively. Would John and Brad be together without the Pepperdine connection? Probably not. Anyway, we're trying to "understand" not "bash". We love these guys and the game they play...
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