|
Post by volleyballjim on Aug 14, 2014 1:20:31 GMT -5
Big Patterson fan and I followed Jake Gibb through the “Rosie-years” and LOVE the guy, but watching the finals on NBC at the AVP SLC, I’m starting to wane on their current partnership. I saw TOO MANY Patterson digs/plays along with too many Gibb bad passes/shanks/misblocks, to go too much further with this arrangement at this point with Rio starting to “come into play”. Now, on the other side of the net, if I watch Ryan Doherty miss another serve, I’m going to stand up at Huntington and yell: “Underhand serve!”. It really was UNBELIEVABLE the number of serve faults he made. He’s a PITCHER for g/Gods sake! The cut shot of Casey, to tie the third game with the championship on the line at 14-15 showed what he is made of when it counts! Lucena and Casey were BY FAR, the best athletes/players out there . What kind of partnership might Casey/Nick be for Rio in 2016!?
|
|
|
Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 14, 2014 7:07:59 GMT -5
Big Patterson fan and I followed Jake Gibb through the “Rosie-years” and LOVE the guy, but watching the finals on NBC at the AVP SLC, I’m starting to wane on their current partnership. I saw TOO MANY Patterson digs/plays along with too many Gibb bad passes/shanks/misblocks, to go too much further with this arrangement at this point with Rio starting to “come into play”. Now, on the other side of the net, if I watch Ryan Doherty miss another serve, I’m going to stand up at Huntington and yell: “Underhand serve!”. It really was UNBELIEVABLE the number of serve faults he made. He’s a PITCHER for g/Gods sake! The cut shot of Casey, to tie the third game with the championship on the line at 14-15 showed what he is made of when it counts! Lucena and Casey were BY FAR, the best athletes/players out there . What kind of partnership might Casey/Nick be for Rio in 2016!? To watch Nick and Ryan just attack Jake like that, wow. Jake was going a bit mental, Casey pulled him back to this universe somehow. Not sure if this was a one match meltdown, or if this is how Jake is playing. Ryan I thought played well in that 3rd set, I don't know why he decided to challenge Casey's D (twice!) after repeatedly going high hands on Jake. Also, don't forget Nick's 3 transition points he missed late too.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Aug 14, 2014 7:55:52 GMT -5
Ryan does have spells where he is maddeningly inconsistent, like missing a ton of serves, but his improvement is huge this year. It reminds me of when Kent Steffes came on tour and he was clearly one of the best players, but every now and then he would give up 5-6 points in a row on inexplicable errors or hitting balls out. And yes the volleyball Gods may now strike me dead as I have compared Ryan Doherty to the greatest player in history.
Some of the stuff Ryan is doing now, it would have been hard to picture him doing even last year. He got a set against Theo and Todd that was maybe five feet off. Not a terrible set, but not a great one and he just destroyed it straight down into the angle. You could hear spectators shouting great swing and stuff like that. Id never seen him hit a ball that way before. It may be a while before he can keep up the consistency enough to be in the semis of the AVP and quarters of the FIVB week in and week out, but he is definitely getting there.
One thing I wonder is why Nick isnt getting more credit for Ryan's success. Last year everyone was lining up and practically holding their breath waiting for Ryan to do something well so they could credit Todd's teaching. Now that Ryan is actually succeeding, why isnt anyone praising Nick, who for the second year in a row has taken a big man with almost no previous success and done well with him?
|
|
|
Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 14, 2014 8:13:15 GMT -5
Ryan does have spells where he is maddeningly inconsistent, like missing a ton of serves, but his improvement is huge this year. It reminds me of when Kent Steffes came on tour and he was clearly one of the best players, but every now and then he would give up 5-6 points in a row on inexplicable errors or hitting balls out. And yes the volleyball Gods may now strike me dead as I have compared Ryan Doherty to the greatest player in history. Some of the stuff Ryan is doing now, it would have been hard to picture him doing even last year. He got a set against Theo and Todd that was maybe five feet off. Not a terrible set, but not a great one and he just destroyed it straight down into the angle. You could hear spectators shouting great swing and stuff like that. Id never seen him hit a ball that way before. It may be a while before he can keep up the consistency enough to be in the semis of the AVP and quarters of the FIVB week in and week out, but he is definitely getting there. One thing I wonder is why Nick isnt getting more credit for Ryan's success. Last year everyone was lining up and practically holding their breath waiting for Ryan to do something well so they could credit Todd's teaching. Now that Ryan is actually succeeding, why isnt anyone praising Nick, who for the second year in a row has taken a big man with almost no previous success and done well with him? Well said G2 about Ryan. I fully agree with your comment on Nick. Nick has consistently gotten the most out of players deemed "less than top tier". I think Nick is a person who people love to play with, and hate to play against. He has that McEnroe gene were he can find some way to get up for any match.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Aug 14, 2014 9:43:38 GMT -5
Ryan does have spells where he is maddeningly inconsistent, like missing a ton of serves, but his improvement is huge this year. It reminds me of when Kent Steffes came on tour and he was clearly one of the best players, but every now and then he would give up 5-6 points in a row on inexplicable errors or hitting balls out. And yes the volleyball Gods may now strike me dead as I have compared Ryan Doherty to the greatest player in history. Some of the stuff Ryan is doing now, it would have been hard to picture him doing even last year. He got a set against Theo and Todd that was maybe five feet off. Not a terrible set, but not a great one and he just destroyed it straight down into the angle. You could hear spectators shouting great swing and stuff like that. Id never seen him hit a ball that way before. It may be a while before he can keep up the consistency enough to be in the semis of the AVP and quarters of the FIVB week in and week out, but he is definitely getting there. One thing I wonder is why Nick isnt getting more credit for Ryan's success. Last year everyone was lining up and practically holding their breath waiting for Ryan to do something well so they could credit Todd's teaching. Now that Ryan is actually succeeding, why isnt anyone praising Nick, who for the second year in a row has taken a big man with almost no previous success and done well with him? Well said G2 about Ryan. I fully agree with your comment on Nick. Nick has consistently gotten the most out of players deemed "less than top tier". I think Nick is a person who people love to play with, and hate to play against. He has that McEnroe gene were he can find some way to get up for any match. I was watching an EEVB video of Nick/Carambula playing Seidu and someone and obviously thats a local event and Nick is probably just there to pick up a check, but seeing that match be relatively close, it really drove home for me how narrow Nick's margin for success is. A player like Casey Patterson can be off his game, pass poorly and still sideout and put balls away because of his height, etc. whereas Nick has to be at or near 100% all the time or giants like Keenan, Allison, that Dutch guy or his own partner will eat him alive at the net. I think Nick's mental game is underrated
|
|
|
Post by haze on Aug 14, 2014 10:14:47 GMT -5
Nick's mental game is underrated like Patterson's mental game is overrated. For as good as he is, Patterson is the last guy I would want to count on to be among the World's elite teams.
|
|
|
Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 14, 2014 10:42:44 GMT -5
Nick's mental game is underrated like Patterson's mental game is overrated. For as good as he is, Patterson is the last guy I would want to count on to be among the World's elite teams. I think Casey is still trying to balance playing to the crowd and focusing in on the match. One of the few personalities on the tour, I bet there is some pressure to deliver some of it during big matches. Agree on Nick's mental strength, He has always played more 3 set matches than anyone because of that smaller window. He has learned that one bad set doesn't mean an end to a match.
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Aug 14, 2014 11:57:08 GMT -5
Just objectively, IMHO, not buying the Casey critique. Remember BEFORE Todd was working with Ryan, HE was carrying him and his sporadic passing. Not sure how Casey does as a blocker as Jake is usually in that position, but he is putting balls down and not making NEAR the errors Jake did. Who won that 3rd SLC game, well, Casey . . . Nick CANNOT hit that ball out at the end like he did...You just can't. . . Sorry . . .
|
|
|
Post by haze on Aug 14, 2014 12:29:36 GMT -5
Just objectively, IMHO, not buying the Casey critique. Remember BEFORE Todd was working with Ryan, HE was carrying him and his sporadic passing. Not sure how Casey does as a blocker as Jake is usually in that position, but he is putting balls down and not making NEAR the errors Jake did. Who won that 3rd SLC game, well, Casey . . . Nick CANNOT hit that ball out at the end like he did...You just can't. . . Sorry . . . He was carrying Ryan through the likes of the Jose Cuervo circuit, that's significantly different - their best AVP finishes were 5th, in a field that really had nothing after the top 4-5 teams (kind of like now). Patterson is the one that lost the FIVB matches earlier in the year with his SR errors in crucial parts which was the start of their downfall on the FIVB this summer. I think some of us are making an argument for FIVB, while some are making the argument for the AVP. AVP just isn't what it once was. I think Casey is what he is. A dynamic player who can make plays, and also make errors and doesn't finish big games as strong as he should. He can and does at times, but if you want to be one of the best in the world you need that mental side for consistency.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Aug 14, 2014 13:00:45 GMT -5
AVP is basically a five team tournament at this point. Other teams can get an upset, but only those five can win.
|
|
|
Post by Semp12 on Aug 14, 2014 15:12:32 GMT -5
Just objectively, IMHO, not buying the Casey critique. Remember BEFORE Todd was working with Ryan, HE was carrying him and his sporadic passing. Not sure how Casey does as a blocker as Jake is usually in that position, but he is putting balls down and not making NEAR the errors Jake did. Who won that 3rd SLC game, well, Casey . . . Nick CANNOT hit that ball out at the end like he did...You just can't. . . Sorry . . . He was carrying Ryan through the likes of the Jose Cuervo circuit, that's significantly different - their best AVP finishes were 5th, in a field that really had nothing after the top 4-5 teams (kind of like now). Patterson is the one that lost the FIVB matches earlier in the year with his SR errors in crucial parts which was the start of their downfall on the FIVB this summer. I think some of us are making an argument for FIVB, while some are making the argument for the AVP. AVP just isn't what it once was. I think Casey is what he is. A dynamic player who can make plays, and also make errors and doesn't finish big games as strong as he should. He can and does at times, but if you want to be one of the best in the world you need that mental side for consistency. AVP, Cuervo, NVL the name doesn't matter from the year 2012, it was the teams they had to play since all the tours were a joke. Just because they had a 5th and a 6th at the AVP events does not take away from that season. They beat literally every top team at some point during that year. They also lost to Scott/Hyden a ton when they were studs, but they were in the games with the big dogs that year a good amount of the time. The AVP isn't what it once was. But it is tough to argue that it is sooo weak when we have 4 different teams that potentially have the ability to win an FIVB event. The limited fields do keep the level of play at a high level.
|
|
|
Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 14, 2014 15:28:40 GMT -5
He was carrying Ryan through the likes of the Jose Cuervo circuit, that's significantly different - their best AVP finishes were 5th, in a field that really had nothing after the top 4-5 teams (kind of like now). Patterson is the one that lost the FIVB matches earlier in the year with his SR errors in crucial parts which was the start of their downfall on the FIVB this summer. I think some of us are making an argument for FIVB, while some are making the argument for the AVP. AVP just isn't what it once was. I think Casey is what he is. A dynamic player who can make plays, and also make errors and doesn't finish big games as strong as he should. He can and does at times, but if you want to be one of the best in the world you need that mental side for consistency. AVP, Cuervo, NVL the name doesn't matter from the year 2012, it was the teams they had to play since all the tours were a joke. Just because they had a 5th and a 6th at the AVP events does not take away from that season. They beat literally every top team at some point during that year. They also lost to Scott/Hyden a ton when they were studs, but they were in the games with the big dogs that year a good amount of the time. The AVP isn't what it once was. But it is tough to argue that it is sooo weak when we have 4 different teams that potentially have the ability to win an FIVB event. The limited fields do keep the level of play at a high level. Sean/Phil Tri/John Todd/Theo Ryan/Nick All have medaled this year in FIVB. The fact that Jake and Casey haven't, is something. 1 5th, 5 9ths and 2 17ths.
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Aug 14, 2014 15:44:31 GMT -5
Todd/Theo's medal was a huge fluke
|
|
|
Post by source on Aug 14, 2014 18:56:48 GMT -5
Ryan does have spells where he is maddeningly inconsistent, like missing a ton of serves, but his improvement is huge this year. It reminds me of when Kent Steffes came on tour and he was clearly one of the best players, but every now and then he would give up 5-6 points in a row on inexplicable errors or hitting balls out. And yes the volleyball Gods may now strike me dead as I have compared Ryan Doherty to the greatest player in history. Some of the stuff Ryan is doing now, it would have been hard to picture him doing even last year. He got a set against Theo and Todd that was maybe five feet off. Not a terrible set, but not a great one and he just destroyed it straight down into the angle. You could hear spectators shouting great swing and stuff like that. Id never seen him hit a ball that way before. It may be a while before he can keep up the consistency enough to be in the semis of the AVP and quarters of the FIVB week in and week out, but he is definitely getting there. One thing I wonder is why Nick isnt getting more credit for Ryan's success. Last year everyone was lining up and practically holding their breath waiting for Ryan to do something well so they could credit Todd's teaching. Now that Ryan is actually succeeding, why isnt anyone praising Nick, who for the second year in a row has taken a big man with almost no previous success and done well with him? Did anyone think to ask if Ryan and Nick are working with a coach? Possibly the same coach that nick has been working with since 2011; when he was playing with Fuerby? A good coach can make a difference. Obviously last year Ryan didn't make any strides with his game. Just another possibility to think about.
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Aug 15, 2014 1:17:55 GMT -5
I'm going to watch the SLC men's final AGAIN and do some analysis, but STILL, Casey is solid as a rock, but I'll await my re-watch before I fully confirm. I mean, they're serving his partner FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS and yeah, I know, I know, he's the stronger player, but I think MUCH stronger than this forum is giving him credit for...And, yes, the AVP tour is small (now) and growing (you can't argue that) but the players there are doing "just fine" on the world stage...
|
|