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Post by MVBFAN on Feb 27, 2019 13:48:20 GMT -5
This post aged well
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Post by bealzabubba on Feb 27, 2019 17:55:04 GMT -5
From a parent perspective: outside of a few of the elites (H, Princeton, MIT), and VERY good schools (e.g. UCSD), I'm pretty sure I would not encourage my son to play D3.
This assumes' he's good enough (I think he is), but ... I just don't see the ROA, to him, of going to a lower level private lib/arts school over attending a great school w/o v-ball. His education would arguably be lesser, and he'd (well, me) would have to pay a significant amount for that privilege. And yes, I'm being very judgmental about some of those schools, perhaps unfairly.
I can be convinced out of this, so feel free to try.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 27, 2019 18:07:18 GMT -5
From a parent perspective: outside of a few of the elites (H, Princeton, MIT), and VERY good schools (e.g. UCSD), I'm pretty sure I would not encourage my son to play D3. This assumes' he's good enough (I think he is), but ... I just don't see the ROA, to him, of going to a lower level private lib/arts school over attending a great school w/o v-ball. His education would arguably be lesser, and he'd (well, me) would have to pay a significant amount for that privilege. And yes, I'm being very judgmental about some of those schools, perhaps unfairly. I can be convinced out of this, so feel free to try. There are some fairly well respected schools that are DIII - NYU is the first that comes to mind. MIT, UC Santa Cruz, Vassar. I am not super familiar with the East Coast Schools though so there may be more. All the schools you listed (except for MIT) are actually DI. UCSD is technicaly D2 but is in the process of transitioning. Stevens is a Tech school (like MIT) and I know of several Volleyball players with very nice Engineering jobs after graduation. I would recommend doing some more research if you do think your son can play at the next level. The opportunities at the big DI schools are fairly limited unless he is a top tier player.
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Post by bealzabubba on Feb 27, 2019 18:18:04 GMT -5
Fair point - I had the schools wrong. Having watched D3, and knowing how he plays / Can play - he's *likely* good enough for D3 at this point (but ummm, daddy goggles!).
At this point, though, I think his best case scenario is using VB to get into a school he's otherwise qualified for and wants to attend - I just don't see added value beyond that for D3, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.
He may feel entirely different.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 27, 2019 18:44:44 GMT -5
Fair point - I had the schools wrong. Having watched D3, and knowing how he plays / Can play - he's *likely* good enough for D3 at this point (but ummm, daddy goggles!). At this point, though, I think his best case scenario is using VB to get into a school he's otherwise qualified for and wants to attend - I just don't see added value beyond that for D3, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. He may feel entirely different. He is still a freshman correct? He has so much time. If he thinks he wants to play volleyball at the next level then by all means you should be researching all the oppoturnities. Have you looked at the Middle Hitter websiste? They have quite a bit of resources as far as college programs on that site (use the tabs at top of the website rather than the tab that says recruting the information/links at the top are much more current.) My son didn't even know he liked volleyball his freshman year in high school and now he is DI - so who knows what may change for your son in the next few years. But start talking about these things early, do the research, find out what his academic passions are. Is an athletic scholarship a priority? Does he love the Humanities or is he a Math/Science guy. Does he was to be the kid who got into UCLA (or Princeton or???) because of athletics but really has to struggle to keep up with his classmates - but wow what an opportunity! If it is money you are looking for the NAIA schools are where the money is.
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Post by bealzabubba on Feb 27, 2019 19:22:53 GMT -5
Yep - he's a freshman, and he's told me he wants to play "in college" - but he really has no idea what that means. Hyper competitive, and has the size/skill already for d3 (again: DADDY GOGGLES!). We've started to watch college ball together, and go to UCLA/USC/Pepp matches, so he's got an very good idea of the skill level there, and we've streamed D3. (is there a D3 or NAIA school in LA?)
He's attending an academically excellent HS, and carrying a 4.0 (no honors this year), so ... we're really at the beginning of this search. The best part of V-ball, so far, is I won't let him play either HS or Club if he's not damn near 4.0, and he's applied himself. Science is his passion, not the humanities. Is it likely he'd be a P/H/MIT admission candidate? Not realistic, IMHO.
I'm aware that D1/money is a long shot - as I said initially, my best hope really is V-ball can put him over the top at a U he's otherwise qualified for, and from a financial perspective, the CS or UC's just make the most sense (to me).
So generally, my hope is to do the research and leverage this as best I can.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 27, 2019 19:40:29 GMT -5
Yep - he's a freshman, and he's told me he wants to play "in college" - but he really has no idea what that means. Hyper competitive, and has the size/skill already for d3 (again: DADDY GOGGLES!). We've started to watch college ball together, and go to UCLA/USC/Pepp matches, so he's got an very good idea of the skill level there, and we've streamed D3. (is there a D3 or NAIA school in LA?) He's attending an academically excellent HS, and carrying a 4.0 (no honors this year), so ... we're really at the beginning of this search. The best part of V-ball, so far, is I won't let him play either HS or Club if he's not damn near 4.0, and he's applied himself. Science is his passion, not the humanities. Is it likely he'd be a P/H/MIT admission candidate? Not realistic, IMHO. I'm aware that D1/money is a long shot - as I said initially, my best hope really is V-ball can put him over the top at a U he's otherwise qualified for, and from a financial perspective, the CS or UC's just make the most sense (to me). So generally, my hope is to do the research and leverage this as best I can. Hope International is NAIA (Fullerton), I think Cal Lutheran is D3 (not sure), take him to some Junior College games as well just to see the level of play (although you may want to wait until the League games start because right now the games are fairly lopsided) - if you are in the LA area - Santa Monica, El Camino, and Pierce are top JC programs and Long Beach City, Orange Coast College and maybe IVC in the OC area. Next Friday Aquinas (One of the current top NAIA schools - they are in MI) is coming to play Orange Coast - that should be a fun matchup - Aquinas is loaded with former OCC players. The UCs are fabulous for the math/science guys. Keep in mind that (at least what we were told by our club and other parents of top recruits) that regardless - your son needs to reach out to the coaches and let them know he is interested in playing for them, ask for a tour, etc. Men's Volleyball is not basketball or football and these coaches are spread thin. Contact them (your son should do that) and tell them you are interested. Talk to your club director and let them know your son is interested in playing in college. And keep encouraging those academics - be sure to include that GPA when approaching the coaches. That is a big deal!
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Post by bealzabubba on Feb 27, 2019 19:59:06 GMT -5
We were pretty impressed with Cal Lutheran - so much so that my older son applied (waiting, not an athlete). Coach Judd made a very good impression, and the campus is lovely.
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Post by orangecurtain on Feb 27, 2019 21:42:30 GMT -5
Yep - he's a freshman, and he's told me he wants to play "in college" - but he really has no idea what that means. Hyper competitive, and has the size/skill already for d3 (again: DADDY GOGGLES!). We've started to watch college ball together, and go to UCLA/USC/Pepp matches, so he's got an very good idea of the skill level there, and we've streamed D3. (is there a D3 or NAIA school in LA?) He's attending an academically excellent HS, and carrying a 4.0 (no honors this year), so ... we're really at the beginning of this search. The best part of V-ball, so far, is I won't let him play either HS or Club if he's not damn near 4.0, and he's applied himself. Science is his passion, not the humanities. Is it likely he'd be a P/H/MIT admission candidate? Not realistic, IMHO. I'm aware that D1/money is a long shot - as I said initially, my best hope really is V-ball can put him over the top at a U he's otherwise qualified for, and from a financial perspective, the CS or UC's just make the most sense (to me). So generally, my hope is to do the research and leverage this as best I can. If he's a freshman, I don't know if you should pigeon hole him into D3 already. Many things could happen in 3 or 4 years that could change his status. For D3 schools, recruiting and what the colleges offer depends on the school. For example, Stevens, a very selective school for admissions, doesn't consider his status as a volleyball player during the admission process and the coach can't "help" him get into the school. I heard MIT is another school where you don't get much help being a volleyball player. Vassar, another very selective school, allows the volleyball coach to "sponsor" a player to help him get into the school, but he only has a few "sponsorship" per year. But in order to get the sponsorship, you have to apply as an early decision, so you basically have to commit.
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Post by bbk on Feb 28, 2019 11:33:11 GMT -5
My 2 cents would be let the market dictate at what level your son can compete.
If academics are important there may be a few other options at the Div I/II level depending on course of study and as stated before Return on Investment (ROI).
Division III is a good option for many but usually the coaches have the final say if you will be given a chance at a Division I/II or not.
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Post by Semp12 on Feb 28, 2019 13:34:15 GMT -5
To clarify, DI, DII, DIII literally has nothing to do with the academic reputation of the university. You will have all ranges of schools among all three divisions. There are conferences which require specific academic requirements (the Ivy's for instance), but that is a conference feature not an NCAA one.
Men's Volleyball being small- there may be some generalities, but equating DI with great academics and DII/DIII with possibly poor academics is a very false assumption.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 28, 2019 14:32:51 GMT -5
Yep - he's a freshman, and he's told me he wants to play "in college" - but he really has no idea what that means. Hyper competitive, and has the size/skill already for d3 (again: DADDY GOGGLES!). We've started to watch college ball together, and go to UCLA/USC/Pepp matches, so he's got an very good idea of the skill level there, and we've streamed D3. (is there a D3 or NAIA school in LA?) He's attending an academically excellent HS, and carrying a 4.0 (no honors this year), so ... we're really at the beginning of this search. The best part of V-ball, so far, is I won't let him play either HS or Club if he's not damn near 4.0, and he's applied himself. Science is his passion, not the humanities. Is it likely he'd be a P/H/MIT admission candidate? Not realistic, IMHO. I'm aware that D1/money is a long shot - as I said initially, my best hope really is V-ball can put him over the top at a U he's otherwise qualified for, and from a financial perspective, the CS or UC's just make the most sense (to me). So generally, my hope is to do the research and leverage this as best I can. If he's a freshman, I don't know if you should pigeon hole him into D3 already. Many things could happen in 3 or 4 years that could change his status. For D3 schools, recruiting and what the colleges offer depends on the school. For example, Stevens, a very selective school for admissions, doesn't consider his status as a volleyball player during the admission process and the coach can't "help" him get into the school. I heard MIT is another school where you don't get much help being a volleyball player. Vassar, another very selective school, allows the volleyball coach to "sponsor" a player to help him get into the school, but he only has a few "sponsorship" per year. But in order to get the sponsorship, you have to apply as an early decision, so you basically have to commit. If that is correct about Stevens (both that they are highly selective academically and the coach only gets to "recruit" from those accepted) it is remarkable their program has been so successful! Didn't they win a National Championship several years back?
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Post by bealzabubba on Feb 28, 2019 16:10:16 GMT -5
To clarify, DI, DII, DIII literally has nothing to do with the academic reputation of the university. You will have all ranges of schools among all three divisions. There are conferences which require specific academic requirements (the Ivy's for instance), but that is a conference feature not an NCAA one. Men's Volleyball being small- there may be some generalities, but equating DI with great academics and DII/DIII with possibly poor academics is a very false assumption. That's not what I meant - I was referring to a cost / benefit analysis. I.e. Stevens was $50,554 in tuition and fees for the 2017 - 2018 academic year (quick google, doesn't appear to include room/board) The UC's by comparison, are $13,225 (in state). My point (badly made) was that I'd prefer my son go to a UC, and not play, than go to Stevens and play. Maybe I'm too money conscious, but I think that's a huge problem for growing D3 V-ball.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 28, 2019 16:30:21 GMT -5
To clarify, DI, DII, DIII literally has nothing to do with the academic reputation of the university. You will have all ranges of schools among all three divisions. There are conferences which require specific academic requirements (the Ivy's for instance), but that is a conference feature not an NCAA one. Men's Volleyball being small- there may be some generalities, but equating DI with great academics and DII/DIII with possibly poor academics is a very false assumption. That's not what I meant - I was referring to a cost / benefit analysis. I.e. Stevens was $50,554 in tuition and fees for the 2017 - 2018 academic year (quick google, doesn't appear to include room/board) The UC's by comparison, are $13,225 (in state). My point (badly made) was that I'd prefer my son go to a UC, and not play, than go to Stevens and play. Maybe I'm too money conscious, but I think that's a huge problem for growing D3 V-ball. I am not sure about Stevens - BUT many of the DIII schools offer other types of money that is not athletic. They are not bound by the athletic scholarship rules so they can often offer more money than people think. Totally hear you though and agree if other things were equal - I would feel the same way as you. Keep in mind though that just because a school lists their tuition as X - it is possible that most students don't actually pay X (especially if your son maintains that GPA!!). Not so however with the UCs - with them what you see is pretty much what you get and merit based scholarships are rare.
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Post by TheReignman on Feb 28, 2019 17:58:44 GMT -5
To clarify, DI, DII, DIII literally has nothing to do with the academic reputation of the university. You will have all ranges of schools among all three divisions. There are conferences which require specific academic requirements (the Ivy's for instance), but that is a conference feature not an NCAA one. Men's Volleyball being small- there may be some generalities, but equating DI with great academics and DII/DIII with possibly poor academics is a very false assumption. That's not what I meant - I was referring to a cost / benefit analysis. I.e. Stevens was $50,554 in tuition and fees for the 2017 - 2018 academic year (quick google, doesn't appear to include room/board) The UC's by comparison, are $13,225 (in state). My point (badly made) was that I'd prefer my son go to a UC, and not play, than go to Stevens and play. Maybe I'm too money conscious, but I think that's a huge problem for growing D3 V-ball. Money is a challenge at any private institution, maybe I am getting too mushy but their is an intangible value to being part of something larger than yourself, competing for a common goal and cause. I couldn't put a monetary value on my time at a small private DIII. The experience of competing at an extremely high level for 4 years, the relationships along the way (friends, coaches, etc.), and the lessons I learned from that period of my life. As someone who works and has to fight the stigmas/assumptions- those are the things that don't show up on a cost benefit analysis and I feel truly sorry for the people who will never understand that.
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