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Post by vballin008 on Oct 24, 2015 12:15:36 GMT -5
Does anyone else think Jordan Anderson looks very usa team-like? Because she does to me, reminds me of K Rob. Hopefully she can develop her back row game. she is a junior?
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Post by tomclen on Oct 24, 2015 13:35:39 GMT -5
The Pac-12 has a very serious volleyball attendance problem. [...] A conference that some would argue is the strongest top-to-bottom or, at worst, is the second strongest volleyball conference in the country, should not be playing in front of a smattering of hardcore fans. You are welcome to this opinion, but there is no evidence to support that Pac-12 volleyball attendance is a "serious problem." Do you think Pac-12 WVB teams will become less competitive without more fans in the seats? I don't see a case for that position. I think you should look at relative rather than absolute numbers. . If you want to look at 'relative' rather than 'absolute', then let's look at the NCAA numbers for ATTENDANCE thru 10/22/15. Of the top 16 teams for attendance, there is NOT ONE SINGLE PAC-12 SCHOOL. Not one. There's Big 10. There's Big 12. There's Mountain West. Atlantic Coast. Missouri Valley. Mid-American. But NO Pac-12. And to your queston of do I "think Pac-12 WVB teams will become less competeitive without more fans in the seats?" Yes. Absolutely. Not this season, maybe not next. But if this trend continues, it will no doubt hurt recruiting. Not at Stanford, of course, that's a different animal. But impressionable high-school kids (and their parents) are going to be impressed by bigger crowds at Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Purdue, Texas, Colorado State, Iowa St., Witchita St. (all of which are ahead of every Pac-12 school) than they will be for 862 fans at Haas. If I was an AD at a Pac-12 school, or director of VB operations, I think my hair would be on fire looking at those stats. You're welcome to your opinion if you think that's not a serious problem.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 24, 2015 14:14:21 GMT -5
Fans are more likely to follow winning teams. For two of those teams, USC and UCLA, getting over 1,000 fans to attend is a challenge, on any night. Washington is doing fairly well, drawing in the 2k's and 3k's, even without the draw of Vansant. From cheers at the intro of starters, the bigger draw for UW this year is Strickland. With six seniors graduating, however, it could be a challenge keeping the wins and the fans coming. Recent home attendance is not consistent with your "getting over 1,00 fans is a challenge" description, certainly not for USC. USC: WSU (1,286), Wash (2,069), ASU (2,217), Ariz (1,742) UCLA: Wash (1,641), WSU (757), Ariz (834), ASU (1,385) Still a challenge - only two are over 2,000 (none over 3,000), and four are below 1,400.
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Post by volleylearner on Oct 24, 2015 15:11:55 GMT -5
If you want to look at 'relative' rather than 'absolute', then let's look at the NCAA numbers for ATTENDANCE thru 10/22/15. Of the top 16 teams for attendance, there is NOT ONE SINGLE PAC-12 SCHOOL. Not one. There's Big 10. There's Big 12. There's Mountain West. Atlantic Coast. Missouri Valley. Mid-American. But NO Pac-12. And to your queston of do I "think Pac-12 WVB teams will become less competeitive without more fans in the seats?" Yes. Absolutely. Not this season, maybe not next. But if this trend continues, it will no doubt hurt recruiting. Not at Stanford, of course, that's a different animal. But impressionable high-school kids (and their parents) are going to be impressed by bigger crowds at Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Purdue, Texas, Colorado State, Iowa St., Witchita St. (all of which are ahead of every Pac-12 school) than they will be for 862 fans at Haas. If I was an AD at a Pac-12 school, or director of VB operations, I think my hair would be on fire looking at those stats. You're welcome to your opinion if you think that's not a serious problem. Sorry not to be clear. I meant relative across years per school. Stanford averaged 1,928/match in 2013, 2,126/match in 2014, and 2,088/match so far this year. Not much change there, especially considering uneven scheduling (Penn State but no Wash in 2014, no Penn State or UCLA in 2015). I'm quite impressed with Stanford's attendance given how crappy TV has made the schedule. Cal has dropped from 758/match in 2013 to 707/match in 2014 to 652/match 2015. Not sure how significant those numbers are but if I were Cal's DOVO obviously I'd be working on getting those numbers up. A few wins might help. But as Cal's AD I doubt I'd be worrying about comparing those numbers to Wichita St. If the Pac-12 numbers were dropping a lot or the BIG/Hawaii/Texas numbers increasing signficantly, maybe I would have a concern with respect to recruiting. But they aren't. Whatever advantage large crowds gives schools like Nebraska and Hawaii, they have had that advantage for many years.
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Post by volleylearner on Oct 24, 2015 15:21:08 GMT -5
Still a challenge - only two are over 2,000 (none over 3,000), and four are below 1,400. Sorry, I don't follow. You said "For [...] USC and UCLA, getting over 1,000 fans to attend is a challenge, on any night." My point was that the last four matches at USC have all been well over 1,000 so it is not accurate to say that USC is challenged to get over 1,000.
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Post by whowasthat on Oct 24, 2015 16:07:50 GMT -5
You are welcome to this opinion, but there is no evidence to support that Pac-12 volleyball attendance is a "serious problem." Do you think Pac-12 WVB teams will become less competitive without more fans in the seats? I don't see a case for that position. I think you should look at relative rather than absolute numbers. . If you want to look at 'relative' rather than 'absolute', then let's look at the NCAA numbers for ATTENDANCE thru 10/22/15. Of the top 16 teams for attendance, there is NOT ONE SINGLE PAC-12 SCHOOL. Not one. There's Big 10. There's Big 12. There's Mountain West. Atlantic Coast. Missouri Valley. Mid-American. But NO Pac-12. And to your queston of do I "think Pac-12 WVB teams will become less competeitive without more fans in the seats?" Yes. Absolutely. Not this season, maybe not next. But if this trend continues, it will no doubt hurt recruiting. Not at Stanford, of course, that's a different animal. But impressionable high-school kids (and their parents) are going to be impressed by bigger crowds at Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Purdue, Texas, Colorado State, Iowa St., Witchita St. (all of which are ahead of every Pac-12 school) than they will be for 862 fans at Haas. If I was an AD at a Pac-12 school, or director of VB operations, I think my hair would be on fire looking at those stats. You're welcome to your opinion if you think that's not a serious problem. I am really surprised USC as No 1 team is not getting more support from their fans.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 24, 2015 16:39:20 GMT -5
Still a challenge - only two are over 2,000 (none over 3,000), and four are below 1,400. Sorry, I don't follow. You said "For [...] USC and UCLA, getting over 1,000 fans to attend is a challenge, on any night." My point was that the last four matches at USC have all been well over 1,000 so it is not accurate to say that USC is challenged to get over 1,000. For UCLA, the point remains - two of their attendance figures you cited were well below 1,000. USC is, of course, having a banner year. Should have said "historically". Note that for their opening home match this season, vs North Carolina, before anyone knew they were going to be any good, 1,002 were in attendance. The next night, for BYU, they drew 1,079. For the USC Classic, they drew 821 for Pepperdine and 777 for New Mexico.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Oct 24, 2015 17:08:27 GMT -5
Sorry, I don't follow. You said "For [...] USC and UCLA, getting over 1,000 fans to attend is a challenge, on any night." My point was that the last four matches at USC have all been well over 1,000 so it is not accurate to say that USC is challenged to get over 1,000. For UCLA, the point remains - two of their attendance figures you cited were well below 1,000. USC is, of course, having a banner year. Should have said "historically". Note that for their opening home match this season, vs North Carolina, before anyone knew they were going to be any good, 1,002 were in attendance. The next night, for BYU, they drew 1,079. For the USC Classic, they drew 821 for Pepperdine and 777 for New Mexico. USC historically averages 1,500-1,800 per match with 2,000+ for a name opponent. The attendance numbers you quoted were early season before school was in session (and with some awkward start times). Much like nobody showing up at Hec Ed early this season for matches against CSUN, Murray St etc. At any rate, while there's a discussion to be had as to whether USC should be drawing more fans, there isn't much of a discussion about them struggling to hit the 1,000 mark. UCLA plays most of its matches in a tiny gym, so yeah, the attendance numbers aren't great. They are averaging around 1,500 per match to date, though.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 24, 2015 17:40:22 GMT -5
The first two were against quality opponents.
For UW at USC last year, they drew 955 fans. Close to half of those were likely Husky fans.
Drawing 1,500-1,800 fans is nothing to be proud of - doesn't account for visiting fans, for one thing. For 2012, USC averaged 1,447, and UCLA 1,212. UW averaged 2,432. USC and UCLA were 4th and 5th in the conference - UW, Oregon, and Stanford were 1, 2, and 3. That leaves seven Pac-12 schools that were even worse.
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Post by tomclen on Oct 24, 2015 18:01:03 GMT -5
We can throw around numbers all we want - 1,500; 860; 2,300 - but the fact remains, Pac-12 does NOT have a single school in the top 16 of attendance.
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Post by luckydawg on Oct 24, 2015 19:31:15 GMT -5
We can throw around numbers all we want - 1,500; 860; 2,300 - but the fact remains, Pac-12 does NOT have a single school in the top 16 of attendance. First off, your stats are for single games, not average attendance. Last season UW had the highest game when they played Stanford (8600+). At year's end Washington was #6 nationally and I belIeve has been been in the top 10 for at least the last decade.
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Post by speegs13 on Oct 24, 2015 19:43:58 GMT -5
I don't know if it means much, but attendance number for Colorado have been going up the past couple of years. I realize that has to do with the Buffs winning more, but still, it does mean more people in seats watching!
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Post by volleylearner on Oct 24, 2015 19:53:33 GMT -5
First off, your stats are for single games, not average attendance. Last season UW had the highest game when they played Stanford (8600+). At year's end Washington was #6 nationally and I belIeve has been been in the top 10 for at least the last decade. According to the NCAA web site (stats.ncaa.org), Washington was #4 last year in attendance per match and #13 in 2013. I don't know if those numbers include NCAA tournament games. Washington is currently #25 for 2015, but of course have not played USC, UCLA, or Stanford at home yet. For attendance, absolute numbers are more important than rank. The difference between #25 Washington (1,726/match) and #5 Minnesota (3,123) is less than 1,500 people. In the grand scheme of sports attendance, this does not seem like a big deal to me. The top 40 college teams in MBB attendance all draw more than 10,000/game, and top 15 in WBB attendance more than 5,000/game.
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Post by tomclen on Oct 24, 2015 20:58:31 GMT -5
We can throw around numbers all we want - 1,500; 860; 2,300 - but the fact remains, Pac-12 does NOT have a single school in the top 16 of attendance. First off, your stats are for single games, not average attendance. Last season UW had the highest game when they played Stanford (8600+). At year's end Washington was #6 nationally and I belIeve has been been in the top 10 for at least the last decade. Actually, the link is for average attendance and cumulative attendance. And in both categories there is no Pac12 team in the top 15. Not sure why so many people are arguing against the numbers. It seems like there's some head-in-the-sand thinking here. The B1G has surpassed the PAC in recent years on the court, and now in the stands. I don't like it either. But it's the hard, cold reality.
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Post by redbeard2008 on Oct 24, 2015 22:09:24 GMT -5
We can throw around numbers all we want - 1,500; 860; 2,300 - but the fact remains, Pac-12 does NOT have a single school in the top 16 of attendance. First off, your stats are for single games, not average attendance. Last season UW had the highest game when they played Stanford (8600+). At year's end Washington was #6 nationally and I belIeve has been been in the top 10 for at least the last decade. Attendance for the Colorado (Sun.), ASU (Fri.), and Oregon (Fri.) matches were 2,938, 3,418, and 3,068. USC (Fri.) and UCLA (Sun.) come next week, then Stanford two weeks later (Thurs.). Those matches should all be well over 4,000, and could be a good deal higher. Doubt we'll hit 8,600 for Stanford, given the Thurs. date. Wednesday matches definitely pull attendance down, but what's down for UW would be up for a lot of schools.
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