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Post by postitagain2 on Apr 19, 2016 10:17:52 GMT -5
There are only six players listed on the current roster and two female assistant coaches have gone elsewhere in the past couple of years. I am not there,obviously, but those red flags together with a player or two coming forward while using their names make a deep impression on me. Every situation is different and should be investigated on it's own. All that said, I do know of a case of abuse in a women's basketball program. There was a long history of both players and assistant coaches going to the university's human resource department, in both exit interviews and as current players. In this case the assistant coach turnover was extremely high. Basically when their contract was up, they left. Many told HR exactly why - the abuse of student athletes by the head coach and the disorganization of the program because of the head coach. They gave many examples and a person from HR observed some practices and sometimes traveled with the team for a year, but no action was taken. Of course when you know someone is watching, behaviors change until no one is watching anymore. From the player perspective, it was usually the out-going seniors during exit interviews that provided information on how difficult it was. This included a player that had a fractured bone in their leg being required to do wind sprints and those drills where you move vertically touching different lines on the floor. A player who spent the night in the hospital for dehydration due to flu and then was required to be at a dress-up team event within 2 hours of being released from the hospital. A player who was required to go to practice within hours of learning that a family member had committed suicide, and then yelled at constantly at practice for not focusing. These types of things were easy to document. What is hard is to explain to someone how bad the verbal abuse is because it never sounds that bad when you talk about it. When the coach learned of a sophomore player that went to the administration (at the urging of the team -- so she wasn't just there complaining about her own treatment, but the entire team's), the coach benched the player the rest of her career. This player was on the all-conference freshman team. A rising star and basically never played again. So the message was sent to the team if you complain you don't play. The player ended up being the only senior on the team. The coach did start her the last game of her senior year and she played about 5 minutes but she did not have any family/team celebration after the game for her. There was nothing. When BOTH assistant coaches and players are speaking up in exit interviews, the university needs to listen very closely. In the case above, the women's basketball coach was the wife of a high-profile men's sport coach at the same school. Many thought that the school didn't want to lose the men's coach so they put up with his wife. And an assistant coach that left said the athletic administration use to laugh at the players that came forward and wrote them off as just another complaint about women's basketball. This went on for more than 10 years. Then it hit an internet fan site and student-athlete alums of the program came forward to tell many stories of abuse. Some of them told of their parents having meetings with the President and AD and nothing being done. Alums of the school basically rose up and wrote letters in mass demanding an investigation. The coach "resigned" mid-season. Very difficult situation and so hard to know if it's abuse, pampered players or good coaching to push athletes to be their best. But I think a key is if you hear it from multiple student-athletes AND multiple assistant coaches. Then I think you have to listen.
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Post by coachwpassion on Apr 19, 2016 11:05:00 GMT -5
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Post by bigfan on Apr 19, 2016 11:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by vbgirls2 on Apr 19, 2016 11:27:19 GMT -5
There is a difference between yelling at a player to get their attention, to correct (albeit loudly) a play or drill and verbal abuse.
Many coaches are loud because of the environment that they coach in; Basketball coach- loud echoing gym. I am not talking about loud coaches. Because coaches are correcting mistakes, they often come across as negative (pointing out a mistake may come across as negative). I am not talking about this.
Verbal abuse is personal. It's demeaning.
Regularly uses public embarrassment and humiliation on his/her athletes.
Rarely uses praise or positive feedback. (like I said making corrections sometimes comes off as negative)More concerned on catching you doing something wrong, vs right.
Plays head games with their athletes.
Creates an environment based on fear.
Is personally dishonest and untrustworthy.
Rigid, over-controlling, defensive and angry.
Is never satisfied with anything with what his/her athletes do.
Uses excessive conditioning as punishment.
Ignores his/her athletes when angry or displeased.
Is a poor communicator. May look like a good communicator to the media.
Coaches through guilt.
Consistently leaves his/her athletes feeling badly about themselves.
Is a master of denial!!!!
And that doesn't count the coaches that actually use physical abuse- throwing things, pushing athletes, grabbing them by their collars, jackets etc......
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Post by volleyup1 on Apr 19, 2016 11:44:58 GMT -5
As a high school coach for girls basketball and softball since 1996, the conduct of this coach absolutely sickens me. He is a disgrace. We as coaches need to realize that the young women we coach are vulnerable and we are responsible for their needs. We need to protect them, guide them and offer them the most positive experience possible for them to gain from their athletic efforts. It is a privilege for us to be in the coaching profession, and we need to treat that responsibility with the highest level of honor and integrity towards our players and their needs. Coaches, teachers, clergy, parents, mentors have enormous power to screw up the psyche/well being of our subjects. A major portion of their lives are in our hands, as they play for us, especially at the college level. I have zero respect or regard for coaches like this guy, who uses his position to abuse and destroy vulnerable young women who need and deserve so much more than they received. He is a scumbag. He can rot in hell for all I care...I wouldn't piss on the guy if he were on fire. A disgrace to not only the coaching profession, but humanity. Wake Forest University...how the mighty have fallen. Remember their powerhouse basketball program? Tim Duncan. Perennial contenders in the ACC and the national scene. It's like they have disappeared. They have fallen off the face of the basketball earth for the last five years. The whole athletic department is a joke...WF football...lol. Pathetic, second-rate athletic departments produce and enable coaches like this lowlife. Well said.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:53:21 GMT -5
If anyone has a photocopy of the demeaning line writing of the girl "who ate too much" or a witness to this event, then he should be immediately fired. No defense. Some of the other stuff is ineffective coaching and stylistic. But there are enough solid examples of abusive behavior that if any have solid proof, he should be fired for cause.
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Post by postitagain2 on Apr 19, 2016 14:28:38 GMT -5
There is a difference between yelling at a player to get their attention, to correct (albeit loudly) a play or drill and verbal abuse. Many coaches are loud because of the environment that they coach in; Basketball coach- loud echoing gym. I am not talking about loud coaches. Because coaches are correcting mistakes, they often come across as negative (pointing out a mistake may come across as negative). I am not talking about this. Verbal abuse is personal. It's demeaning. Regularly uses public embarrassment and humiliation on his/her athletes. Rarely uses praise or positive feedback. (like I said making corrections sometimes comes off as negative)More concerned on catching you doing something wrong, vs right. Plays head games with their athletes. Creates an environment based on fear. Is personally dishonest and untrustworthy. Rigid, over-controlling, defensive and angry. Is never satisfied with anything with what his/her athletes do. Uses excessive conditioning as punishment. Ignores his/her athletes when angry or displeased. Is a poor communicator. May look like a good communicator to the media. Coaches through guilt. Consistently leaves his/her athletes feeling badly about themselves. Is a master of denial!!!! And that doesn't count the coaches that actually use physical abuse- throwing things, pushing athletes, grabbing them by their collars, jackets etc...... This is a very good list. All this applied in the basketball example I posted above. And I think the worst part is these young ladies were asked to host recruits and all they wanted to do is tell these high school girls to go somewhere else. That it was miserable playing for this coach. But they basically lied and said the school was great and they should come. If they did not, and it got back to the head coach why a recruit wasn't coming, the player would have lost their scholarship and never played again. It was a very prestigious school and the education was highly sought after. The friendships and the degree were why the women came back each year -- but many cried when they had to return in the fall. Two of them did not come back and both were in counseling for many years. One had severe eating disorders. It was very sad to have this as your memory of your college years.
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Post by bigdfromla on Apr 19, 2016 14:47:18 GMT -5
The worst aspect of this whole thing is not so much the on-the-court yelling, but when this jackass coach started criticizing his players weight, physical appearance and attempting to micromanage their eating habits by using fear, threats and intimidation. This is horrifically damaging to these young women, right up there with rape and sexual abuse. This can leave deep seated scars and damage that some may need therapy or treatment to overcome. My heart goes out to the young women and their families, who were victims of this coach, the clueless athletic department and the out of touch university. He should be fired immediately, open to criminal prosecution and legal action should be taken to the highest level.
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Post by Dakota on Apr 19, 2016 15:17:16 GMT -5
If anyone has a photocopy of the demeaning line writing of the girl "who ate too much" or a witness to this event, then he should be immediately fired. No defense. Some of the other stuff is ineffective coaching and stylistic. But there are enough solid examples of abusive behavior that if any have solid proof, he should be fired for cause. You can get fired for telling a girl she ate too much?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 16:09:18 GMT -5
If anyone has a photocopy of the demeaning line writing of the girl "who ate too much" or a witness to this event, then he should be immediately fired. No defense. Some of the other stuff is ineffective coaching and stylistic. But there are enough solid examples of abusive behavior that if any have solid proof, he should be fired for cause. You can get fired for telling a girl she ate too much? I will assume that you did not read the context of the "telling" (if you did read it and are asking sincerely, then yes you can). And, yes, you can if the context was true. AND, your school could likely get sued, AGAIN, if the context as stated is provable.
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Post by Northern lights on Apr 19, 2016 17:39:29 GMT -5
Is anyone at Wake Forest defending Ken? If not then you do not have to ask how they feel. They are looking for a way out of it.
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Post by vbfamm on Apr 19, 2016 18:38:03 GMT -5
Wow. Strong comments by a poster on the second article. Continued employment at WFU is a bigger mystery than Stonehenge. A list of Ken Murczek’s coaching practices over the past 6 years. (UNT and WFU) 1. Players referred to as f_____ stupid, f_____ dumb, f_____ retarded. 2. Verbal tirades until some players are literally broken. 3. Put downs. Nothing is ever "good enough." Scholarships threatened. 4. Bad plays are the players fault. Good plays are because of coaching. 5. When players individually approached him with concerns there is long term retribution. 6. Forcing players to cheer during punishment drills then yell at the players for cheering. 7. Writing punishments were also given to individual players after answering obscure questions wrong. Player(s) were required to write the correct answer 50 times. 8. Throwing things at players 9. Players were coerced into hugging the coaching staff before and after practices as well as times players saw him on or off campus. Frontal hugs were preferred over side hugs. He tells players they must approach him and “greet” him if they see him "even if it makes their boyfriends jealous. Note: All of the hugging ceased during and after the Title IX investigation. 10. Players think it is in their own best interest to act fake around recruits as to how things are really like. 11. Controlling food intake to the point players asked parents to “sneak in” food on road trips. 12. Pits players against players 13. The majority of past and present players have zero belief in athletic administration and school administration in the removal of Ken and thus are afraid to publicly go on the record. 14 When HBO was investigating, players were cautioned against speaking to the media by Ron Wellman. Players were provided a 12 year old newspaper article about women athletes being physically attacked and or even raped by those pretending to be media. So in other words best not to talk to media. This is the article provided to the team in 2014. www.sfgate.com/sports/a... 15. School admin is keenly and clearly aware of all of the above. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Culture of harassment and threats and an administration following a code of denial and silence. What a combination!
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Post by redbeard2008 on Apr 19, 2016 19:28:36 GMT -5
It can be a fine line between a "tough" coach and an "abusive" coach. A somewhat similar situation occurred at Washington with the women's rowing program, with mainly underclasswomen complaining about demeaning treatment by and a hostile environment created by long-time head coach, Bob Ernst, with many of the complaints centered on the issue of weight. Personally, I think that Ernst was simply a tough coach (in a tough sport, where weight can make a competitive difference), but who failed to change his coaching style to fit the times. Ernst ended up doing UW a favor, by first quitting in a huff, then trying to unquit, after which the AD said, "Sorry, too late." The coach at Wake Forest looks to be simply abusive.
No school is going to turn a deaf ear to complaints of this sort, simply because to do so is to invite a federal lawsuit. (Beware recruits whose parents are rich lawyers, or at least treat them gently.) On the other hand, if they just fire the guy, they might have to pay out a large buyout, or invite a lawsuit for damages, in return, which can explain how these situations can continue a good while.
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Post by Northern lights on Apr 19, 2016 19:44:43 GMT -5
You could argue that a student athlete was denied the value of their scholarship, and then add in abuse for punitive damages.
Wake Forest historically, is a small school, low enrollment, 12-1 student to teacher ratio's, and a lot of very wealthy and influential alumni, whose children attend the school, and who would not be very happy about this.
Add in the relatively weak showing by the athletic department as a whole, and more than just the volleyball coach could be in danger of losing their job.
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Post by gobruins on Apr 20, 2016 6:22:01 GMT -5
Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think. I mean, it's pretty harsh, but I can't say I disagree with any of it. I probably wouldn't say it publicly, but you know, those are the people I like. The ones who say what everyone is thinking. To the guy earlier who said it's sad because other coaches have gotten fired for significantly less, that is the disturbing part of all of this. Universities don't always care to investigate. They always say they are going to take a report, act like they are listening and caring, say they will investigate, but really do nothing. Or cover up what the student(s) claims. Wake Forest's program was pretty horrible in the ACC last year. They went 4-16 and THREE of those four victories were in five sets against the weakest teams (Notre Dame, Clemson, Boston College, Virginia) They were 5-15 in 2013, 6-12 in 2014. There is a way to be a tough coach while still earning respect from your players. I was just joking. I agree with everything BigD said. This a-hole "coach" should be fired yesterday.
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