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Post by sandman32 on Apr 20, 2016 7:54:02 GMT -5
I'm glad I come on this site. I know one school now my daughter will not be considering as long as a certain coach is there. Are their more coaches like this that I as a parent should know about?
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Post by odinaka on Apr 20, 2016 9:03:30 GMT -5
This is a very good list. All this applied in the basketball example I posted above. And I think the worst part is these young ladies were asked to host recruits and all they wanted to do is tell these high school girls to go somewhere else. That it was miserable playing for this coach. But they basically lied and said the school was great and they should come. If they did not, and it got back to the head coach why a recruit wasn't coming, the player would have lost their scholarship and never played again. It was a very prestigious school and the education was highly sought after. The friendships and the degree were why the women came back each year -- but many cried when they had to return in the fall. Two of them did not come back and both were in counseling for many years. One had severe eating disorders. It was very sad to have this as your memory of your college years. My daughter was in that position where Ken got some of the girls on the team to try and convince her to come. They said all the right things but their body language said something different which I thankfully picked up on. It did not help that he creeped me out when he placed his hands on my shoulder during the visit; can't recall ever having that reaction from an innocent act like that. Fortunately, I did not have to convince her to decline as she did so on her own because the coach was "weird".
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Post by vbgirls2 on Apr 20, 2016 12:42:49 GMT -5
On one particular road trip where the intended meal that was suppose to be pre-ordered didn't show up, the assistant coach wanting to get the girls fed, just ordered pizzas so they could get out of there quicker. One of the girls was eating pizza and the coach said in front of everyone (when there was no other choice but the pizza) "If you would make better food choices, you would not be so fat and be able to jump higher"
So yes, I have heard coaches comment about girls eating too much or eating what they considered the wrong things.
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Post by vbgirls2 on Apr 20, 2016 12:53:30 GMT -5
Unfortunately many administrations turn a blind eye to some of these complaints and the comments are never followed up on. If you are in a sport that makes money at your school,(BB FB etc) or fills arenas- you're less likely to be heard. Not all schools do exit interviews. When an athlete transfers, the administration often chalks it up to "sour grapes".
Very common is athletes being told what they can and can't say when a recruit is on campus. I have even seen a script where it tells exactly what to say when asked certain questions. Current athletes worry about retribution if they are truthful about problems and are often threatened with their scholarships.
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Post by Dakota on Apr 20, 2016 13:20:18 GMT -5
You can get fired for telling a girl she ate too much? I will assume that you did not read the context of the "telling" (if you did read it and are asking sincerely, then yes you can). And, yes, you can if the context was true. AND, your school could likely get sued, AGAIN, if the context as stated is provable. About breadsticks? Every program my daughter looked at had strict nutritional plans; most that wouldn't include Olive Garden. I'm not trying to become the one guy defending this coach, but I have seen these things escalate from truth to tyranny before and could see this potentially being that type of situation. Players will dislike coaches, employees will dislike bosses and how they treat them, that is human nature. I have read as much as I could and have not been able to discern any level of truth from either side.
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Post by wayout on Apr 20, 2016 13:32:21 GMT -5
Just out of curiosity, if you are someone that thinks players are being told what to say when recruits come, can you please specify if you are parent, player, fan or coach? I ask because I can't believe this is a common practice. The school I played for, and the schools I have coached at have never done anything like that. I actually encourage my players to talk to recruits about the hard times and bad days. Playing for me is not always rainbows and sunshine and I want them to know that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2016 14:47:52 GMT -5
I will assume that you did not read the context of the "telling" (if you did read it and are asking sincerely, then yes you can). And, yes, you can if the context was true. AND, your school could likely get sued, AGAIN, if the context as stated is provable. About breadsticks? Every program my daughter looked at had strict nutritional plans; most that wouldn't include Olive Garden. I'm not trying to become the one guy defending this coach, but I have seen these things escalate from truth to tyranny before and could see this potentially being that type of situation. Players will dislike coaches, employees will dislike bosses and how they treat them, that is human nature. I have read as much as I could and have not been able to discern any level of truth from either side. I do not think anything I wrote differs from your assessment. Words like "if the context was true" and "as stated is provable" should demonstrate that. And, yes, I stand by my statement that IF the side of the story we are reading can be PROVEN that, given the fact the university did not take any actions on behaviors that are unacceptable and targeted, they have an ugly liability case here. Likely could have gotten away with the creepy hugs, the berating of individuals, the demeaning of individuals, the hard discipline in practices all on their own but when you combine them and show mental anguish (or an eating disorder) on the part of the plaintiff, you got some problems. Add to the fact that many of these behaviors are directed toward women AND include body shaming and you might even get the federal government to be the legal team for the plaintiff. IF, any of the above actually happened and IF there is proof. Important word.
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Post by shotcaller on Apr 20, 2016 16:39:34 GMT -5
I'm glad I come on this site. I know one school now my daughter will not be considering as long as a certain coach is there. Are their more coaches like this that I as a parent should know about? unfortunately yes.
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Post by bigfan on Apr 20, 2016 16:52:04 GMT -5
I'm glad I come on this site. I know one school now my daughter will not be considering as long as a certain coach is there. Are their more coaches like this that I as a parent should know about? What part of the country do you live in? In any profession there are good people and Bad ones.
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Post by somethinbruin on Apr 20, 2016 17:00:40 GMT -5
On one particular road trip where the intended meal that was suppose to be pre-ordered didn't show up, the assistant coach wanting to get the girls fed, just ordered pizzas so they could get out of there quicker. One of the girls was eating pizza and the coach said in front of everyone (when there was no other choice but the pizza) "If you would make better food choices, you would not be so fat and be able to jump higher" So yes, I have heard coaches comment about girls eating too much or eating what they considered the wrong things. I've heard such comments, too, unfortunately. And seen the effects firsthand. One of my club teammates went to a middling DI program where the coach monitored and commented on everything they ate in his presence. He hounded my friend so badly (and she was a slender 6'2") that she developed an eating disorder that required three separate hospitalizations. The last time her weight dipped below 100 lbs. and it nearly killed her. She spent six months in a treatment facility. Every time I see that coach coach out on the recruiting circle (and I see him often) I can feel myself getting angry at him. As a club coach, I've warned a handful of my players away from his program because I feel I'm obligated to do so. I also love the startling lack of logic displayed by such coaches: if you eat "better," they say, (the subtext of which is often "if you eat less/starve yourself") you'll weigh less and thus jump higher. The result of calorie restriction may be weight loss, but I don't think it's always accompanied by increased power/vertical/acceleration or whatever. My sister's college coach told her to cut weight in the summer between her freshman and sophomore year (she was 6'1" and 165 lbs of muscle, so why?). She lost 30 pounds through calorie/carb restriction, was skin and bones, and then her coach got pissed in the fall because she had lost three inches off her vertical. Well, no duh. She didn't have any muscle left, and wasn't eating enough/the right kind of calories to build any muscle or produce any energy. Like so much of the discussion on this thread has mentioned: everything is a fine line and cloaked in shades of gray. There is a fine line between having dietary guidelines/recommendations for your team and policing food choices in an unhealthy way. In the end, it's folly to think that you can 100% control your players' eating habits. What I've settled on is controlling what I can control: so when I have to buy a continental breakfast or stuff to make lunch during a tournament, I make the best choices I can--whole foods, fruits, vegetables, healthy proteins and fats--so that they always have healthy options. On the other hand, if we just had a 90 minute warm-up and played a two hour match, I don't really give a flip if someone eats two breadsticks or orders a burger. I have bigger battles to fight.
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Post by John Tawa-VolleyballMag.com on Apr 20, 2016 17:14:00 GMT -5
About breadsticks? IF, any of the above actually happened and IF there is proof. Important word. "This happened to me" is proof. It is evidentiary and probative, but subject to refutation. When 2 or more tell the same or similar stories, it is more likely than not true. That's your proof.
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Post by fieldsoffire on Apr 20, 2016 17:14:29 GMT -5
So can anyone here vouch for who the great coaches are? I'm talking about coaches that are positive, inspire their players and build them up into great players and even better people?
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Post by tl on Apr 20, 2016 21:18:23 GMT -5
I'm glad Ken is finally receiving the attention he deserves. My daughter was one of the abused players featured in the article from UNT. It's pretty bad when an opposing coach pulls you aside after a match and tells you to get your daughter off his team. The Wake Forest story told only a small amount of his many infractions. After 2 years of living through hell, and I do mean hell, my daughter got to play her last year for a wonderful coach, Andrew Palileo. I thank God that she out lasted "The Monster," and got her love of the game back. I hope WF does something before it's too late.
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Post by laxlga on Apr 20, 2016 23:00:09 GMT -5
So can anyone here vouch for who the great coaches are? I'm talking about coaches that are positive, inspire their players and build them up into great players and even better people? Unfortunately, I cannot recommend my daughter's college coach who was horrible. Here are some ideas for potentially surfacing a bad egg: - Pay attention to transfers at the schools that you are considering. If possible, see if your club coach/director can reach out transferred player(s) club coach/director and see why they transferred. You can also look at the number of transfers and at least ask questions to try to satisfy yourself.
- Remember that generally people are reluctant to say something bad outright, so you need to read body language and listen for tone in addition to what players are saying.
- Many schools will have players write a senior farewell note/statement that gets distributed on senior night. If possible, get a copy of that write up. Were the players saying glowing things about the coach like Marcus Paige did on senior night? or did they write, I want to thank Coach X for allowing me to come to Y school. The absence of praise for the coach speaks volumes
- If possible, find a former player of the school/coach. Ask the player what were the five best things about playing at Y school. If no answer contains praise for the coach, that tells you a lot. This is a good technique to use with current players, too. It allows them to say positive things but tell you a lot by what they are not saying.
Others may have better ideas that I do. Remember, there are probably more good apples than bad. Good luck.
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Post by fieldsoffire on Apr 21, 2016 7:34:08 GMT -5
Thanks laxlga those are all great tips! I know people always say pick the school and not the coach but honestly what good is it to play for a school you love with a terrible coach? I think the most important thing is to be able to be in a program where there is a strong chance of lasting 4 years in the program. In my opinion it is best to not commit early and choose a school with a coach you will love playing for - someone who you daughter can grow and thrive under and is an advocate for them both academically and in volleyball. Now I realize that a coach can leave at any moment and if that happens then you can still transfer if things go downhill. What we really need is a website where coaches can be rated by former players!
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