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Post by volleyballjim on Jun 4, 2017 15:07:06 GMT -5
As I watched Summer/Brooke (congrats, by the way) in the gold medal match v. Larissa, I was reminded AGAIN at how effective pulling on a block is versus hanging in there as they chop around you. Larissa hardly made an attack hit toward the end, I mean at least 80% were cutty's. Are those ladies hitting such that pulling is a ineffective strategy? That has to be tempered with a block going up on a 5'9" female who can hit around it and does quite often and quite effectively!?
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Post by donnyb on Jun 4, 2017 15:41:41 GMT -5
Brazil women are the best in the world at pulling and digging the hard ball. Crazy how many dogs they get that way
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Post by 23flavors on Jun 4, 2017 16:55:03 GMT -5
This is exactly what I've been saying for a few years. The Us women are big but I don't believe "athletic" enough to be effective. Our only blocker that can play at the international level is Kerri (and maybe now Summer). I have thought April would be an ideal blocker because she is fast enough and capable of peeling. Having that big blocker isn't important in the women's game. I believe the Brazilian ladies are a perfect example of this
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 4, 2017 17:01:08 GMT -5
We all know the pulling method never works...
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Post by guest2 on Jun 4, 2017 19:28:02 GMT -5
This is exactly what I've been saying for a few years. The Us women are big but I don't believe "athletic" enough to be effective. Our only blocker that can play at the international level is Kerri (and maybe now Summer). I have thought April would be an ideal blocker because she is fast enough and capable of peeling. Having that big blocker isn't important in the women's game. I believe the Brazilian ladies are a perfect example of this This is dubious reasoning. The overwhelming majority of events last year were won by teams with a big blocker. (15 of 19) You could just as easily say since Latvia won a few last year that a big blocker isn't important in the men's game. Neither are true (although in women's its more true) but on both sides great ball control, siding out and defense can make up for a lack of a blocker. |
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Post by 23flavors on Jun 4, 2017 21:30:30 GMT -5
I don't know how you came up with that stat? Maybe the word big is an opinion. I again will use the word athletic as the key attribute. Walkenhorst (who is the same size as April) and Kerri are the only bigs near the top that can change a game as a blocker. The Brazilian blockers are there to funnel the ball to their elite defenders, just as Kerri and Walkenhorst do. Plus they all play great defense when they peel. Look at the athleticism of Fendrick, Fopma, and other US bigs... not world class level by any means and they will not win tournaments because of blocking.
I will agree that ball control and the ability to terminate in serve receive, but even more so in transition is important. This is what winning volleyball (beach, court, pro, 14 y/o, etc) looks like
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Post by Wolfgang on Jun 4, 2017 21:44:40 GMT -5
I don't know what this is.
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Post by 23flavors on Jun 4, 2017 22:04:12 GMT -5
I don't know what this is. Maybe stick with video games then... |
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Post by guest2 on Jun 5, 2017 4:15:23 GMT -5
I don't know how you came up with that stat? Maybe the word big is an opinion. I again will use the word athletic as the key attribute. Walkenhorst (who is the same size as April) and Kerri are the only bigs near the top that can change a game as a blocker. The Brazilian blockers are there to funnel the ball to their elite defenders, just as Kerri and Walkenhorst do. Plus they all play great defense when they peel. Look at the athleticism of Fendrick, Fopma, and other US bigs... not world class level by any means and they will not win tournaments because of blocking. I will agree that ball control and the ability to terminate in serve receive, but even more so in transition is important. This is what winning volleyball (beach, court, pro, 14 y/o, etc) looks like I agree that footspeed and general lack of athleticism is what kills the US blockers other than Kerri. Kerri's quickness, at her height is the no. 1 reason she is the GOAT. There have been other players at a comparable size but never anyone that fast. Even at her advanced age I think she is faster than many of the US defenders, including April As to how I got that stat, Kira won 7, Kerri 5, the two Swiss teams one each + Germany. |
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Post by 23flavors on Jun 5, 2017 7:11:42 GMT -5
I don't know how you came up with that stat? Maybe the word big is an opinion. I again will use the word athletic as the key attribute. Walkenhorst (who is the same size as April) and Kerri are the only bigs near the top that can change a game as a blocker. The Brazilian blockers are there to funnel the ball to their elite defenders, just as Kerri and Walkenhorst do. Plus they all play great defense when they peel. Look at the athleticism of Fendrick, Fopma, and other US bigs... not world class level by any means and they will not win tournaments because of blocking. I will agree that ball control and the ability to terminate in serve receive, but even more so in transition is important. This is what winning volleyball (beach, court, pro, 14 y/o, etc) looks like I agree that footspeed and general lack of athleticism is what kills the US blockers other than Kerri. Kerri's quickness, at her height is the no. 1 reason she is the GOAT. There have been other players at a comparable size but never anyone that fast. Even at her advanced age I think she is faster than many of the US defenders, including April As to how I got that stat, Kira won 7, Kerri 5, the two Swiss teams one each + Germany. There ya go, we have been on the same page this whole time talking about different paragraphs. Ultimately we are agreeing with VBJim, it's not exactly the idea of having the biggest blocker, but having the most dynamic ones. |
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Post by junior1 on Jun 5, 2017 13:02:04 GMT -5
The craft of being an able enough blocker to read when blocking is and isn't a good option is huge. Totally agree. Learning how and knowing how to pull from blocking responsibilities and being able to dig is key to higher level play. Too many blocking female beach players pull when a bad pass occurs or commit to blocking before the pass, but few are agile, trained or knowledgeable enough to pull when a bad set occurs. After all, two down covers more court than one back, no matter how skilled a defender is.
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Post by volleyballjim on Jun 6, 2017 10:02:57 GMT -5
junior1: Yeah, thats kind of my point; now, as I always say, "If it were so easy, everybody would be doing it", so I realize it must not be....BUT, the Lindquist sisters got away with little blocking and dig hits (at their relatively advanced ages) regularly. Why aren't the young'uns learning some of this? Just because you're 6" taller than the defenders doesn't mean you can't pull and bring that hit up! I mean you can catch and do virtually anything during a hard driven play so why not do it more often? Most pros look awkward on the hard driven play, few REALLY skilled, but why is that not being learned more, taught more so you don't give that free block away as Larissa cuts away at you PLAY-AFTER-PLAY-AFTER-PLAY !
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 10:18:25 GMT -5
junior1: Yeah, thats kind of my point; now, as I always say, "If it were so easy, everybody would be doing it", so I realize it must not be....BUT, the Lindquist sisters got away with little blocking and dig hits (at their relatively advanced ages) regularly. Why aren't the young'uns learning some of this? Just because you're 6" taller than the defenders doesn't mean you can't pull and bring that hit up! I mean you can catch and do virtually anything during a hard driven play so why not do it more often? Most pros look awkward on the hard driven play, few REALLY skilled, but why is that not being learned more, taught more so you don't give that free block away as Larissa cuts away at you PLAY-AFTER-PLAY-AFTER-PLAY ! What the Lindquists do doesn't work against top teams playing well, although like you I would love to see it used more against mid level players like Brooke or Lane. I do think players should play that way more coming up. When the game changed to blocking over you could see how superior the players who played in the early days were at reading hitters. That said, I think with a player like Larissa you are overstating the possibilities. There have been plenty of times over the years that teams have implemented the best available strategy against her and still lost in two quick games. If they had been dropping perfectly she would still have found the open areas, or just blasted the ball. The only strategy that has proven consistently successful against Larissa - and even this didn't always work - is to have the best blocker in history with a top 5 all time defender, and also sideout at a near perfect level. I thought Summer and Brooke did very well to get the scoring chances hey had against Larissa/Talita. |
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Post by junior1 on Jun 6, 2017 12:03:02 GMT -5
Jim: some of the block heavy response comes from the USA volleyball curriculum... when Alli Wood and Anna Collier started assessing the Junior Beach Volleyball talent; they taught a lot of one up, one back defense...Even kids who could never block were being encouraged to learn these skills... how to front as a blocker and how to dig as one back. I thought at the time it was a good idea, however, many of those assessed kids swallowed it like kool-aid and broke completely away from the two down system. Some were lucky, take the Justine Wong-Orontes/Sarah Hughes duo...who learned from an early age the benefits of playing both two down and the one up/one down system from the old Huntington Beach crew of Lovelace, Roy and their crew (sometimes including at times Mr. Dave Lindquist himself). I think that is why our AVP used to be so strong, a cadre of players who could play both with and without a block.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 6, 2017 12:28:01 GMT -5
Jim: some of the block heavy response comes from the USA volleyball curriculum... when Alli Wood and Anna Collier started assessing the Junior Beach Volleyball talent; they taught a lot of one up, one back defense...Even kids who could never block were being encouraged to learn these skills... how to front as a blocker and how to dig as one back. I thought at the time it was a good idea, however, many of those assessed kids swallowed it like kool-aid and broke completely away from the two down system. Some were lucky, take the Justine Wong-Orontes/Sarah Hughes duo...who learned from an early age the benefits of playing both two down and the one up/one down system from the old Huntington Beach crew of Lovelace, Roy and their crew (sometimes including at times Mr. Dave Lindquist himself). I think that is why our AVP used to be so strong, a cadre of players who could play both with and without a block. I am sure coaching techniques played a part, but it seems like the bigger problem is a lack of athletes. What player before Sara Hughes that came on tour in the last ten years could compare to EY, Annette or Kerri in physical tools. The AVP used to be strong because top players with great physical skills were coming to the beach. Liz, Reno, Rock, EY, MM, KW, JJJ, AB, AR etc. were all elite indoor players with great physical skills add in Kessey and Mcpeak who made the most of what they had. And those players were dominant, all were a threat to win any week on the FIVB. Then the tour got destroyed and the top indoor players stopped coming out, or came and left quickly like Logan Tom. That left us with a ton of solid but physically flawed players. Slow giants like Fendi and Fopma or undersized or underpowered defenders like Brooke, Lane etc. Now that a new generation of top prospects are starting to see beach as an option again the current era will be hopefully be an aberration, we just need Sara, Kelly, some of the other college kids and a few current pros like Summer and the big one on Larsen/Flint to develop |
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