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Post by ay2013 on Oct 31, 2017 13:13:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure what a "deep championship conference" is, or what that means. However, I do see the writing on the wall. To me it is obvious the SEC is improving very rapidly. They are committed to being a top conference in volleyball. It's hard to predict if it will be 3 years or 7 years; but I believe they will be equal with B1G and PAC very shortly. It will make things very interesting! IMO, if the SEC is committed to being a top conference in volleyball you would think they would demand that Vanderbilt start a Women's VB program. I agree the SEC is on the way up...but right now there is almost nothing to suggest that it's a "championship" conference. There are only two of those in volleyball right now, the Big 10 and the Pac-12. I'd even argue that it's just the Big 10. |
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:15:10 GMT -5
It is from a technical standpoint, but they are not very good in conference. If they were the technical requirement to have a .500 record would not be in play. They are what they are and that’s currently the 11th best team in a very deep championship conference "championship" conference? I'm pretty sure the SEC has zero volleyball championships..... Not sure how that got in there. Lol. Meant very deep conference when compared to the 3-6 conferences. |
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:20:26 GMT -5
Ok. Tell me the power house wins that NC State & Syracuse have that Tenn, Bama & Arkansas don’t have. I know one that Arkansas has...ha. Also teams like UGA and OM help form a very deep conference that knocks off the middle tier teams. Uga has 3 Top 50 wins in conference. I see nothing in out of conference wins that justify more ACC teams than SEC. Nothing! The only thing that gives the ACC a boost is that the bottom half of the conference is horrendous and doesn’t put up a fight. To me that shouldn’t bolster the top half’s resumes. And head to head this year the ACC v SEC is like 15-1 in the SECs favor. And my last sentence clearly states that I know the committee won’t take common sense things like this into account but they should. They consumed with RPI. Let me word it another way. Would A&M be in the tournament if they played in the ACC. Of course they would because they would be guaranteed an over .500 record with the bottom half of the conference on the schedule. That’s not the case on the sec Syracuse is not even close to getting into the tournament. Why are you bringng them up? NC State's wins at Pitt and against Notre Dame are better than anything Georgia has (by a lot), and they also didn't lose to High Point and Wofford. Georgia beat Mizzou without Crow (who they also lost to without Crow) and Arkansas - who hasn't beaten anyone themselves. Georgia, seriously? And the SEC is the last conference that should be looking at what teams did out of conference. Only 3 teams did anything at all (UK, UF, Auburn) - 2 of whom aren't getting beaten by anyone else) and the other 10 teams can't bask in that. And UNC (a bubble-out ACC team) beat LSU (a tourney SEC team) and FSU (a bubble-in ACC team) beat Auburn (a bubble-in SEC team), so it's clearly not 15-1, and the H2H isn't supporting better SEC teams getting passed over for weaker ACC teams. I didn’t suggest uga should be in. Do you read or just spout? I was giving you examples of the bottom of the conference and how they have beaten teams that are on the bubble. That clearly does not happen in the ACC. Ole Miss is another example. And you conviently left off NC state who you and others have in the tourney. Who have they beaten Out of Cofenrence that sec teams like tenn, Bama and Arky don’t have like out of conference wins. Let’s deal with them versus these teams that are out in the sec? Tell me smart guy? And while your at it, tell me all the power house out of conference wins that Miami has? Those are impressive! You made my point for me. Bubble teams in the SEC have had to play non bubble teams that are still quality teams that have quality wins. You can make all the excuses you want about injuries, not playing well, etc but they are still wins that hurt the teams bubble chances. The ACC doesn’t have that. In no way shape or form do they have that. That was my point. It’s a much easier path to the tourney and should be taken into account. |
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Oct 31, 2017 13:21:06 GMT -5
There are going to be a fair deal of in the tournament who didn't do much to make the tournament. The top 20 teams just didn't take many losses (yet, at least) to teams in the bubble range. I don't think fans of either second tier ACC or SEC teams or even Hawaii have much need to be angry if they find themselves on the wrong side of the bubble since much better teams have been excluded in the past. I do think NC State will have earned their position in the tourney and am super proud of the progress they've made this year but admit that, other than a 5-set loss to Kansas at Home, they haven't shown much suggesting that they could actually challenge a seeded team in the tourney.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 31, 2017 13:26:20 GMT -5
Syracuse is not even close to getting into the tournament. Why are you bringng them up? NC State's wins at Pitt and against Notre Dame are better than anything Georgia has (by a lot), and they also didn't lose to High Point and Wofford. Georgia beat Mizzou without Crow (who they also lost to without Crow) and Arkansas - who hasn't beaten anyone themselves. Georgia, seriously? And the SEC is the last conference that should be looking at what teams did out of conference. Only 3 teams did anything at all (UK, UF, Auburn) - 2 of whom aren't getting beaten by anyone else) and the other 10 teams can't bask in that. And UNC (a bubble-out ACC team) beat LSU (a tourney SEC team) and FSU (a bubble-in ACC team) beat Auburn (a bubble-in SEC team), so it's clearly not 15-1, and the H2H isn't supporting better SEC teams getting passed over for weaker ACC teams. I didn’t suggest uga should be in. Do you read or just spout? I was giving you examples of the bottom of the conference and how they have beaten teams that are on the bubble. That clearly does not happen in the ACC. Ole Miss is another example. And you conviently left off NC state who you and others have in the tourney. Who have they beaten Out of Cofenrence that sec teams like tenn, Bama and Arky don’t have like out of conference wins. Let’s deal with them versus these teams that are out in the sec? Tell me smart guy? NC State doesn't need out of conference wins, they have in-conference wins. Tenn, Bama and Arky don't have wins, whether in or out of conference. Arkansas is in the tournament as of now (but on the bubble) and Bama is very close, despite having done very little themselves. There are no teams in the SEC not making the tournament who have done more than teams from the ACC who will make the tournament. That's a fact, smart guy. |
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:28:37 GMT -5
I didn’t suggest uga should be in. Do you read or just spout? I was giving you examples of the bottom of the conference and how they have beaten teams that are on the bubble. That clearly does not happen in the ACC. Ole Miss is another example. And you conviently left off NC state who you and others have in the tourney. Who have they beaten Out of Cofenrence that sec teams like tenn, Bama and Arky don’t have like out of conference wins. Let’s deal with them versus these teams that are out in the sec? Tell me smart guy? NC State doesn't need out of conference wins, they have in-conference wins. Tenn, Bama and Arky don't have wins, whether in or out of conference. Arkansas is in the tournament as of now (but on the bubble) and Bama is very close, despite having done very little themselves. There are no teams in the SEC not making the tournament who have done more than teams from the ACC who will make the tournament. That's a fact, smart guy. Disagree using your logic because you would have to discount everyone’s wins against UNC because of injury and others for whatever other excuse you can come up with Aahhhh...Both Arky and Bama are out of the tournament as of 10/31 post. You prove my point again. They are perfect examples of a stronger conference schedule should push them on! And furthering you proving my point...your whipping boy (uga) beat them both...haha. That doesn’t happen in the ACC. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 31, 2017 13:36:09 GMT -5
NC State doesn't need out of conference wins, they have in-conference wins. Tenn, Bama and Arky don't have wins, whether in or out of conference. Arkansas is in the tournament as of now (but on the bubble) and Bama is very close, despite having done very little themselves. There are no teams in the SEC not making the tournament who have done more than teams from the ACC who will make the tournament. That's a fact, smart guy. Disagree using your logic because you would have to discount everyone’s wins against UNC because of injury and others for whatever other excuse you can come up with  ? That makes no sense. Why would everyone's wins against UNC be crucial to this discussion (though LSU's loss is certainly part of the picture). Please tell me who you think is being shafted in the SEC. Auburn, Arkansas, even Mizzou are likely IN the tourney as of now, for all their faults. Arkansas' only win of note is against a 7-11 Texas A&M team. Auburn better hope the Committee isn't as hard on NC State as you are because that win is the best thing on their resume. Tennessee? Best win is LSU and then Mizzou without Crow after that. Losses to West Virginia, South Carolina and A&M. Alabama? Best win is Arkansas, second best is Tennessee. Lost to Southern Miss, Georgia and Ole Miss. Scheduled 1 team with a pulse in non-con and got blown out. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 31, 2017 13:40:58 GMT -5
And furthering you proving my point...your whipping boy (uga) beat them both...haha. That doesn’t happen in the ACC. Non-tourney teams from the ACC beat Michigan St. (!!!!!!), LSU, Colorado St. in the non-con, but I guess they are "less" of a threat than Ole Miss, who beat no one OOC and lost to South Alabama, Arkansas State, North Dakota and SMU. |
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:41:30 GMT -5
Disagree using your logic because you would have to discount everyone’s wins against UNC because of injury and others for whatever other excuse you can come up with ? That makes no sense. Why would everyone's wins against UNC be crucial to this discussion (though LSU's loss is certainly part of the picture). Please tell me who you think is being shafted in the SEC. Auburn, Arkansas, even Mizzou are likely IN the tourney as of now, for all their faults. Arkansas' only win of note is against a 7-11 Texas A&M team. Auburn better hope the Committee isn't as hard on NC State as you are because that win is the best thing on their resume. Tennessee? Best win is LSU and then Mizzou without Crow after that. Losses to West Virginia, South Carolina and A&M. Alabama? Best win is Arkansas, second best is Tennessee. Lost to Southern Miss, Georgia and Ole Miss. Scheduled 1 team with a pulse in non-con and got blown out. I don’t think the ACC deserves more teams than the SEC. I know it’s a team thing and not a conference thing but in other sports (basketball and baseball) that is taken into account. UNC injuries are taken into account because you take into account Missouri injuries when discussing SEC wins. Why doesn’t the same apply? Also Crow played against uga in Athens. I know you are arbitrary when using facts but just thought you may want to know. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 31, 2017 13:45:06 GMT -5
? That makes no sense. Why would everyone's wins against UNC be crucial to this discussion (though LSU's loss is certainly part of the picture). Please tell me who you think is being shafted in the SEC. Auburn, Arkansas, even Mizzou are likely IN the tourney as of now, for all their faults. Arkansas' only win of note is against a 7-11 Texas A&M team. Auburn better hope the Committee isn't as hard on NC State as you are because that win is the best thing on their resume. Tennessee? Best win is LSU and then Mizzou without Crow after that. Losses to West Virginia, South Carolina and A&M. Alabama? Best win is Arkansas, second best is Tennessee. Lost to Southern Miss, Georgia and Ole Miss. Scheduled 1 team with a pulse in non-con and got blown out. I don’t think the ACC deserves more teams than the SEC. I know it’s a team thing and not a conference thing but in other sports (basketball and baseball) that is taken into account. UNC injuries are taken into account because you take into account Missouri injuries when discussing SEC wins. Why doesn’t the same apply? Also Crow played against uga in Athens. I know you are arbitrary when using facts but just thought you may want to know. I'm not counting UNC as a win of note for ACC teams - that's why! You appear to be arbitrary using what you "feel." |
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:46:02 GMT -5
And furthering you proving my point...your whipping boy (uga) beat them both...haha. That doesn’t happen in the ACC. Non-tourney teams from the ACC beat Michigan St. (!!!!!!), LSU, Colorado St. in the non-con, but I guess they are "less" of a threat than Ole Miss, who beat no one OOC and lost to South Alabama, Arkansas State, North Dakota and SMU. Another great point...that mich st Win was by GT who got swept by two SEC teams. Your whipping boy being one of them(actually that one was 3-1 but not close). You are comparing 10th and 11th teams in conference to the others 7th and 8th. That’s again proving my point and the ACC lost that match. |
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Post by southie on Oct 31, 2017 13:48:57 GMT -5
As far as the SEC, Mizzou and Tennessee have fallen the furthest from their high points a few years ago. A&M has had one good (sub-regional host) season since joining the SEC when they won the SEC title back in 2015, only to get bounced by Hawaii.
So, I don't think it's about the commitment these schools have to volleyball; it's there. But, perhaps the head coaches were allowed to stay too long.
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Post by ProfessorPlum on Oct 31, 2017 13:51:20 GMT -5
I don’t think the ACC deserves more teams than the SEC. I know it’s a team thing and not a conference thing but in other sports (basketball and baseball) that is taken into account. UNC injuries are taken into account because you take into account Missouri injuries when discussing SEC wins. Why doesn’t the same apply? Also Crow played against uga in Athens. I know you are arbitrary when using facts but just thought you may want to know. I'm not counting UNC as a win of note for ACC teams - that's why! You appear to be arbitrary using what you "feel." Ok. So who has Miami beaten? Lville and NC State? That’s it in Top 50. And a Top 50 UNC injures team. And they are clearly in? Right? UGA, Who is clearly out, has 3 Top 50 wins and one discounted by one player being out. Seems pretty equal to me. So with all that discussion the ACC should have 7 teams in and the SEC should maybe have 5. Top to bottom, I’m not sure the ACC wins 3 matches of the Top 13. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 31, 2017 13:52:48 GMT -5
Non-tourney teams from the ACC beat Michigan St. (!!!!!!), LSU, Colorado St. in the non-con, but I guess they are "less" of a threat than Ole Miss, who beat no one OOC and lost to South Alabama, Arkansas State, North Dakota and SMU. Another great point...that mich st Win was by GT who got swept by two SEC teams. Your whipping boy being one of them(actually that one was 3-1 but not close). You are comparing 10th and 11th teams in conference to the others 7th and 8th. That’s again proving my point and the ACC lost that match.  |
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Post by ay2013 on Oct 31, 2017 13:54:18 GMT -5
you know which two teams could really help this whole sub regionalization/less fly ins stuff moving forward? Tennessee out of the SEC and North Carolina out of the ACC. Both can pull lots of teams from those 1 bid conferences as well as cross SEC/ACC teams. Tennessee can pull a number of Big 10 teams, North Carolina can pull Maryland (who I think will be making the tournament more frequently). Arkansas could also be a solid future host as they can draw a number of Big 12 teams.
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? That makes no sense. Why would everyone's wins against UNC be crucial to this discussion (though LSU's loss is certainly part of the picture).