RKPI / Pablo / AVCA Bracket Comparisons

[FloridaPerson]

I think median may be a far better indicator than mean for subregional difficulty.

it's at least worth a look.

[Gorf]

Boom said:

Yeah, but what is bothering me is the the sub-r's for the top 4 seeds being so disparate (is that the right word?).

Disparate is a fine word - and does convey what I believe you're trying to imply.

I don't disagree at all.

I'm not sure what the committee can do about some of the disparity since they appear to be tasked to as much as possible leave teams as close to home as possible for sub-regional matches.

I'd much rather have a true 1-64 seeding then send teams wherever they ought to be based on their seeding and forget about regionalizing.

Someone suggested pre-selecting even the sub-region sites. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I'm sure there are many things that could be done to rectify some of the selection issues.


One thing that bothers me with many of the complaints this year though is that many of the same problems have existed in selections, seedings, and locations of past tournaments. This year, however, teams with the most vociferous fans have been impacted so it gets more attention.

If you look back at even last year's tournament brackets you see similar problems as well.

That's not to say it doesn't have a need for being "fixed" it just means some of the outrage I read here though well-founded was there for similar issue in years past.

[Gorf]

FloridaPerson said:

I think median may be a far better indicator than mean for subregional difficulty.

it's at least worth a look.

*grumble*

I may look into that a bit later - I need a nap now...


ermmm...

I need to get some work done.

[FloridaPerson]

I'll take care of it.

it just won't be all pretty like.

[SaltNPepper]

The said:

Something else to consider in the way the sub-regions break out.

Many are calling Minnesota's sub-region a cake walk - and rightfully so from the looks of the rankings.

OTOH: Many also talk about various teams weak overall or non-conference schedules and how those don't prepare them for the tournament. Thus, along the same lines being placed in a sub-region of all low ranked teams doesn't help prepare the Gophers for the much stronger teams they would likely face in their regional matches.

As with the Wahine, Gators, and others I'd personally rather have had the Gophers playing at home as a top (4-6 in the case of Minnesota) seed facing tougher competition.

This is an excellent point. I recall an interview with Terry Pettit after winning the National Championship in 1995. He said he felt his team played the hardest tournament schedule of the Final Four teams and that was an important factor in their winning the NC. The earlier rounds he felt really helped them prepare for the competition they faced in the final 4. It was really just a case of them turning a negative into a positive.

The feeling I get from some posters is that this is the first time the road to the Final Four has not been about equal for the top teams. There could really be nothing farther from the truth. We've be talking about how the selection committee has screwed it up just about every year. All we really have is just a few different teams that got screwed this year.

[Gorf]

FloridaPerson said:

I'll take care of it.

it just won't be all pretty like.

Actually, I'm already in the process of doing it.

It will only take a perhaps 10 minutes.

[Gorf]

Louisville

[/u][/td]
[td]RKPI[/u][/td]
[td]Pablo[/u][/td]
[td]AVCA[/u][/td]
[td]Minneapolis[/u][/td]
[td]RKPI[/u][/td]
[td]Pablo[/u][/td]
[td]AVCA[/u][/td]
[td]Green Bay[/u][/td]
[td]RKPI[/u][/td]
[td]Pablo[/u][/td]
[td]AVCA[/u][/td]
[td]Seatlle[/u][/td]
[td]RKPI[/u][/td]
[td]Pablo[/u][/td]
[td]AVCA[/u][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Nebraska [/td]
[td]1.00[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]Minnesota[/td]
[td]3.00[/td]
[td]6.00[/td]
[td]4.00[/td]
[td]Hawaii[/td]
[td]2.00[/td]
[td]27.00[/td]
[td]2.00[/td]
[td]Penn State[/td]
[td]4.00[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Iona[/td]
[td]197.00[/td]
[td]196[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Long Island[/td]
[td]123.00[/td]
[td]112.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Colorado[/td]
[td]49.00[/td]
[td]41.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]American[/td]
[td]63.00[/td]
[td]154[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Nevada[/td]
[td]31.00[/td]
[td]57[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Yale[/td]
[td]102.00[/td]
[td]156.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Purdue[/td]
[td]51.00[/td]
[td]34.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Towson State[/td]
[td]54.00[/td]
[td]49[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Wichita State[/td]
[td]28.00[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]28[/td]
[td]Albany[/td]
[td]43.00[/td]
[td]77.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Colorado State[/td]
[td]19.00[/td]
[td]11.00[/td]
[td]9.00[/td]
[td]Maryland[/td]
[td]50.00[/td]
[td]47[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Median[/td]
[td]29.50[/td]
[td]40.50[/td]
[td]14.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]72.50[/td]
[td]94.50[/td]
[td]4.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]34.00[/td]
[td]30.50[/td]
[td]5.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]52.00[/td]
[td]48.00[/td]
[td]3.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Illinois[/td]
[td]26.00[/td]
[td]25[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Georgia[/td]
[td]36.00[/td]
[td]56.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Notre Dame[/td]
[td]15.00[/td]
[td]39.00[/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td]Utah[/td]
[td]27.00[/td]
[td]51[/td]
[td]20.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Louisville[/td]
[td]20.00[/td]
[td]13[/td]
[td]19[/td]
[td]Georgia Tech[/td]
[td]14.00[/td]
[td]17.00[/td]
[td]27.00[/td]
[td]Valporaiso[/td]
[td]56.00[/td]
[td]35.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]LBSU[/td]
[td]25.00[/td]
[td]30[/td]
[td]30.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Missouri[/td]
[td]23.00[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]24[/td]
[td]UCSB[/td]
[td]17.00[/td]
[td]14.00[/td]
[td]16.00[/td]
[td]Wisconsin[/td]
[td]21.00[/td]
[td]28.00[/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td]UCLA[/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]15.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Arkansas[/td]
[td]39.00[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Alabama A&M[/td]
[td]146.00[/td]
[td]217.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Loyola-Chicago[/td]
[td]92.00[/td]
[td]95.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Loyola Marymount[/td]
[td]45.00[/td]
[td]46[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Median[/td]
[td]24.50[/td]
[td]20.00[/td]
[td]21.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]26.50[/td]
[td]36.50[/td]
[td]21.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]38.50[/td]
[td]37.00[/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]29.50[/td]
[td]38.00[/td]
[td]20.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Arizona[/td]
[td]30.00[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]Texas A&M[/td]
[td]16.00[/td]
[td]19.00[/td]
[td]18.00[/td]
[td]Florida[/td]
[td]5.00[/td]
[td]16.00[/td]
[td]13.00[/td]
[td]California[/td]
[td]33.00[/td]
[td]26[/td]
[td]17.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UC Irvine[/td]
[td]44.00[/td]
[td]59[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Winthrop[/td]
[td]48.00[/td]
[td]73.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Florida A&M[/td]
[td]46.00[/td]
[td]4.00[/td]
[td]22.00[/td]
[td]Pacific[/td]
[td]47.00[/td]
[td]37[/td]
[td]33.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]San Diego[/td]
[td]12.00[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]12[/td]
[td]Tennessee[/td]
[td]7.00[/td]
[td]22.00[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]
[td]Stanford[/td]
[td]11.00[/td]
[td]5.00[/td]
[td]6.00[/td]
[td]St. Marys[/td]
[td]10.00[/td]
[td]18[/td]
[td]14.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]New Mexico State[/td]
[td]77.00[/td]
[td]54[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Eastern Kentucky[/td]
[td]66.00[/td]
[td]72.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Jacksonville[/td]
[td]179.00[/td]
[td]161.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Sacramento State[/td]
[td]81.00[/td]
[td]38[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Median[/td]
[td]37.00[/td]
[td]38.50[/td]
[td]16.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td]47.00[/td]
[td]14.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]28.50[/td]
[td]10.50[/td]
[td]13.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]40.00[/td]
[td]31.50[/td]
[td]17.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[td]*[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Cal State Northridge[/td]
[td]71.00[/td]
[td]62[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Pittsburgh[/td]
[td]38.00[/td]
[td]70.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Michigan[/td]
[td]34.00[/td]
[td]32.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Kansas[/td]
[td]62.00[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kansas State[/td]
[td]22.00[/td]
[td]20[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]Ohio[/td]
[td]18.00[/td]
[td]9.00[/td]
[td]25.00[/td]
[td]Rice[/td]
[td]29.00[/td]
[td]29.00[/td]
[td]29.00[/td]
[td]Santa Clara[/td]
[td]24.00[/td]
[td]43[/td]
[td]26.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]USC[/td]
[td]9.00[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]Ohio State[/td]
[td]6.00[/td]
[td]7.00[/td]
[td]7.00[/td]
[td]Texas[/td]
[td]13.00[/td]
[td]8.00[/td]
[td]11.00[/td]
[td]Washington[/td]
[td]8.00[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]5.00[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]College of Charleston[/td]
[td]55.00[/td]
[td]67[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Dayton[/td]
[td]99.00[/td]
[td]88.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Texas State[/td]
[td]37.00[/td]
[td]100.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Idaho[/td]
[td]93.00[/td]
[td]62[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Median[/td]
[td]38.50[/td]
[td]41.00[/td]
[td]15.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]28.00[/td]
[td]39.50[/td]
[td]16.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]31.50[/td]
[td]30.50[/td]
[td]20.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]43.00[/td]
[td]37.50[/td]
[td]15.50[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

[FloridaPerson]

Interesting that most have a median RKPI that falls within or right around the range of 25-35

[SaltNPepper]

FloridaPerson said:

Interesting that most have a median RKPI that falls within or right around the range of 25-35

And of the top 4 seeds, has the lowest RPI for my Huskers. This PROVES that Nebraska has the hardest subregional.

[Boom]

SaltNPepper said:

And of the top 4 seeds, has the lowest RPI for my Huskers. This PROVES that Nebraska has the hardest subregional.

[/td]
[tr]
[td] [/td]
[td]UN[/td]
[td]UH[/td]
[td]UM[/td]
[td]PSU[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Diff for top seed [/td]
[td] 196 [/td]
[td] 47 [/td]
[td] 120 [/td]
[td] 150 [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Diff for other team [/td]
[td] 3 [/td]
[td] 32 [/td]
[td] 59 [/td]
[td] 8 [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ave diff [/td]
[td] 99.5 [/td]
[td] 39.5 [/td]
[td] 89.5 [/td]
[td] 79 [/td]
[/tr]
[tr][
td] Diff b/t top 2 teams [/td]
[td] 27 [/td]
[td] 18 [/td]
[td] 40 [/td]
[td] 45 [/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

(OT Vent - Could the formatting for this board be any more cumbersome?)

[Gorf]

Of course it could be more cumbersome - they could have left off any type of support for tables as a start in that direction.

[TheWiseOne]

So lets take a look at each subregional by computer averages (someone may have already done this... i only quickly peeked at this thread)

Subregional ranks (by RKPI) (seed of team in that subregional is in parentheses)
1. Missouri - 27.00 (16)
2. Texas - 28.25 (6)
3. Colorado State - 30.25 (3)
4. UCLA - 32.35 (15)
5. Tennessee - 34.25 (12)
6. USC - 39.25 (8)
7. Ohio State - 40.25 (5)
8. San Diego - 40.75 (9)
t9. California - 42.75 (10)
t9. Penn State - 42.75 (2)
11. Wisconsin - 46.00 (14)
12. Washington - 46.75 (7)
13. Georgia Tech - 53.25 (13)
14. Florida A&M - 60.25 (11)
15. Nebraska - 64.25 (1)
16. Minnesota - 67.75 (4)


Subregional ranks (by Pablo) (seed of team in that subregional is in parentheses)
t1. Missouri - 28.25 (16)
t1. Colorado State - 28.25 (3)
3. California - 29.75 (10)
4. Washington 34.75 (7)
t5. UCLA - 37.00 (15)
t5. San Diego - 37.00 (9)
7. USC - 39.75 (8)
8. Texas - 42.25 (6)
9. Ohio State - 43.50 (5)
t10. Tennessee - 46.50 (12)
t10. Florida A&M - 46.50 (11)
12. Wisconsin - 49.25 (14)
13. Penn State - 63.25 (2)
14. Nebraska - 69.50 (1)
15. Georgia Tech - 76.00 (13)
16. Minnesota - 87.75 (4)


I agree with Gorf that you have to take these with a grain of salt, especially with Nebraska's, since Iona won their conference at 196 and 197 respectively. My point is that in an ideal world, the subregional that hosts the # 16-seed should be the toughest subregional if you averaged the computer rankings. The 15-seed's regional should be second toughest, and so on and so forth. So basically, the numbers in the parentheses should descend from 16 on down to 1. Now, I know its impossible "travel-wise" to make it like that, but the disparity here is alarming.

Beating on a dead horse, I know...
food for thought I guess.