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Post by ShaneM2005 on Jan 8, 2019 11:10:45 GMT -5
Plummer could be the first ever to make it three years in a row, as AVCA POY. It's exciting, considering all the great players that came before her. That says more about the state of college volleyball today (compared to the last decade) than it does about Plummer, IMO. Players like Hodge, Hooker, Tom, Willoughby, Nnamani, Ross, Fawcett, Glass, Pavan, Larson, Akinradewo, etc. would have all been candidates to win multiple NPOY awards if they were playing in this decade vs. last. Most of the players you listed WERE NPOY candidates when they played so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Tom actually did win two NPOY awards.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 8, 2019 11:19:30 GMT -5
That says more about the state of college volleyball today (compared to the last decade) than it does about Plummer, IMO. Players like Hodge, Hooker, Tom, Willoughby, Nnamani, Ross, Fawcett, Glass, Pavan, Larson, Akinradewo, etc. would have all been candidates to win multiple NPOY awards if they were playing in this decade vs. last. Most of the players you listed WERE NPOY candidates when they played so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Tom actually did win two NPOY awards. Don't worry about it. He's just living in the PSU glory days of 10 years ago, when all volleyball players were 3 meters tall and faster than gazelles. Obviously none of these players of today can hold a candle to them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 15:35:20 GMT -5
That says more about the state of college volleyball today (compared to the last decade) than it does about Plummer, IMO. Players like Hodge, Hooker, Tom, Willoughby, Nnamani, Ross, Fawcett, Glass, Pavan, Larson, Akinradewo, etc. would have all been candidates to win multiple NPOY awards if they were playing in this decade vs. last. Most of the players you listed WERE NPOY candidates when they played so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Tom actually did win two NPOY awards. You're misunderstanding my point: college volleyball then was much, much stronger than it is today, both in individual talent and in the breadth of team talent across the country, so citing Plummer's two NPOY awards, with the potential for a third, as evidence of her superiority compared to some of the other athletes I listed isn't a logical argument.
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Post by ShaneM2005 on Jan 8, 2019 15:42:05 GMT -5
Most of the players you listed WERE NPOY candidates when they played so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Tom actually did win two NPOY awards. You're misunderstanding my point: college volleyball then was much, much stronger than it is today, both in individual talent and in the breadth of team talent across the country, so citing Plummer's two NPOY awards, with the potential for a third, as evidence of her superiority compared to some of the other athletes I listed isn't a logical argument. I understand your point completely. However, I don't think it really is accurate when pitting Plummer against the list you provided because the only players that I would say are equal or better than her from the list are Tom, Hodge, & Nnamani. Before the Husker faithful go all Larson crazy too, Plummer is better than Larson was in college.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 15:42:20 GMT -5
Most of the players you listed WERE NPOY candidates when they played so I'm not sure where you're going with that statement. Tom actually did win two NPOY awards. Don't worry about it. He's just living in the PSU glory days of 10 years ago, when all volleyball players were 3 meters tall and faster than gazelles. Obviously none of these players of today can hold a candle to them. Strategy: exaggerate the opponent's argument to the point of ridiculousness so as to remove any tethering to rationality or logic and completely mischaracterize/misstate their positions in order to avoid debating the actual merits of their point(s) and alter the perception of their reasoning. Classic. Well done.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 15:44:25 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding my point: college volleyball then was much, much stronger than it is today, both in individual talent and in the breadth of team talent across the country, so citing Plummer's two NPOY awards, with the potential for a third, as evidence of her superiority compared to some of the other athletes I listed isn't a logical argument. I understand your point completely. However, I don't think it really is accurate when pitting Plummer against the list you provided because the only players that I would say are equal or better than her from the list are Tom, Hodge, & Nnamani. Before the Husker faithful go all Larson crazy too, Plummer is better than Larson was in college. I can't debate with you if you aren't going to be reasonable. Plummer is elite, but this is just silly, and I don't think these kinds of arguments from her fans do her any favors.
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Post by donut on Jan 8, 2019 15:49:45 GMT -5
You're misunderstanding my point: college volleyball then was much, much stronger than it is today, both in individual talent and in the breadth of team talent across the country, so citing Plummer's two NPOY awards, with the potential for a third, as evidence of her superiority compared to some of the other athletes I listed isn't a logical argument. I understand your point completely. However, I don't think it really is accurate when pitting Plummer against the list you provided because the only players that I would say are equal or better than her from the list are Tom, Hodge, & Nnamani. Before the Husker faithful go all Larson crazy too, Plummer is better than Larson was in college. I think the question is, how can you make that comparison if you accept that Larson's baseline competition was higher than Plummer's (shhhhhhhhhhh's point)?
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Post by kokyu on Jan 8, 2019 15:50:40 GMT -5
Anyone willing to find and post Bricio's and Hancock's current and last season's serving stats?
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Post by ShaneM2005 on Jan 8, 2019 15:51:11 GMT -5
I understand your point completely. However, I don't think it really is accurate when pitting Plummer against the list you provided because the only players that I would say are equal or better than her from the list are Tom, Hodge, & Nnamani. Before the Husker faithful go all Larson crazy too, Plummer is better than Larson was in college. I can't debate with you if you aren't going to be reasonable. Plummer is elite, but this is just silly, and I don't think these kinds of arguments from her fans do her any favors. I was referring to the players you stated that are OH for clarification. Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby, & Hooker were not better than Plummer in college.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jan 8, 2019 15:53:50 GMT -5
How is it a foregone conclusion that volleyball in the age of Hodge et al is better than now?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 16:02:54 GMT -5
I can't debate with you if you aren't going to be reasonable. Plummer is elite, but this is just silly, and I don't think these kinds of arguments from her fans do her any favors. I was referring to the players you stated that are OH for clarification. Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby, & Hooker were not better than Plummer in college. Ooookay.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 16:07:59 GMT -5
I was referring to the players you stated that are OH for clarification. Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby, & Hooker were not better than Plummer in college. Ooookay. Queenie, give it a rest (Phanks for sharing!).
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jan 8, 2019 16:14:52 GMT -5
I can't debate with you if you aren't going to be reasonable. Plummer is elite, but this is just silly, and I don't think these kinds of arguments from her fans do her any favors. I was referring to the players you stated that are OH for clarification. Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby, & Hooker were not better than Plummer in college. This is a tough comparison because Plummer's size is a real difference-maker. However, I don't know how you can say that she is empirically better than Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby & Hooker. I don't see that being clear at all. Fawcett might've hit harder, Ross was a premier 6-rotation player with one of the best arms of her generation, and Hooker was a superior athlete to almost anyone else playing at the time. They all have great traits. To say one is CLEARLY better than the other is an argument with little to go on.
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Post by ay2013 on Jan 8, 2019 16:39:19 GMT -5
On the depth argument. I think the top 8 to 10 teams in any given year were arguably better in the 2000's than the 2010's....but I think competition nationwide is much stronger now than in previous decades. The 6th or 7th Big 10 teams are stronger now than the 6th or 7th Big 10 teams in the 2000's....same for the Pac-12, SEC, ACC....every conference actually.
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Post by holidayhusker on Jan 8, 2019 17:08:13 GMT -5
I can't debate with you if you aren't going to be reasonable. Plummer is elite, but this is just silly, and I don't think these kinds of arguments from her fans do her any favors. I was referring to the players you stated that are OH for clarification. Fawcett, Ross, Willoughby, & Hooker were not better than Plummer in college. i think the only bigger homer than me...IS YOU.
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