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Post by mln59 on Apr 12, 2019 16:50:56 GMT -5
how much experience do you have reading Jung? i had read maybe 2 or 3 things before i picked up answer to job.
I took a philosophy course in college. I think I read Jung. I remember reading all the great minds in philosophy and writing several papers about the readings. I don't remember the readings being all that difficult (or easy). That's the extent of my memory. It's all blank after that. i know that i've read "the archetypes and the collective unconscious" by jung. maybe some other stuff.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 14, 2019 15:19:16 GMT -5
I took a philosophy course in college. I think I read Jung. I remember reading all the great minds in philosophy and writing several papers about the readings. I don't remember the readings being all that difficult (or easy). That's the extent of my memory. It's all blank after that. i know that i've read "the archetypes and the collective unconscious" by jung. maybe some other stuff. Picked up Answer to Job. I'm already on p. 23. It's not a difficult read. In fact, I think it's quite entertaining as you go through Jung's arguments. There are also some really funny passages. Here's Jung's paraphrase of David's "protest" to God when the latter broke a covenant: "For heaven's sake, man, pull yourself together and stop being such a senseless savage! It is really too grotesque to get into such a rage when it's partly your fault that the plants won't flourish. You used to be quite reasonable and took good care of the garden you planted, instead of trampling it to pieces." (Actual text is from Pslam 89:46, 47, 49)
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 14, 2019 15:27:49 GMT -5
I also like Jung's description of God/Yahweh as this Almighty figure who is prone to jealousy, pettiness, incalculable moods, wrathfulness, irritable, and because he created man, he also demands an almost petty and narcissistic requirement that they worship him (and no other).
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 17, 2019 12:36:33 GMT -5
Answer to Job
On p. 41. I'm following the argument well but when he brings up unfamiliar historical references, e.g., Sophia era, I get lost with his analysis. But it's okay. I skim it.
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 18, 2019 22:58:02 GMT -5
If you are a pet owner (or want to be one), specifically looking for either a dog or a cat, I highly recommend the books written by biologist John Bradshaw: "Dog Sense: How the New Science of Dog Behavior Can Make You A Better Friend to Your Pet": www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465053742/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i2"Cat Sense: How the New Feline Science Can Make You a Better Friend to Your Pet": www.amazon.com/gp/product/0465064965/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_bibl_vppi_i1There have been many non-fiction books written about dogs and cats of course (i.e. dog training), but not all of them are scientifically grounded, and some so-called dog or cat experts don't really have a solid basis for their advice, based more on their personal hunch than real science. Bradshaw's books are different in that he is trained zoologist who have studied dogs and cats for many years before publishing his books. I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but it is still a really enlightening read. He tells you about the origins of dogs and cats, how they were domesticated and how their brain make sense of their world. These are not specifically dog or cat training books so much as explaining why dog and cats behave a certain way with well-grounded science. He tells you that while dogs and grey wolves do share a common ancestor, dogs are not simply a domesticated or "inferior" wolf, but is it's own animal that behaves quite differently to wolves in many ways, nor do wolves and dogs operate in a strict hierarchy with a tyrannical "alpha" as the popular myth says, they are in fact more a family cooperating together. He also tells you how cats, being less social, behaves differently to dogs, why cats still hunt despite being well-fed by their owners and how cats are more semi-domesticated than fully domesticated, retaining more of its' wild predatory instincts than dogs. And it's written in an accessible and engrossing manner that the layperson can grasp easily. I highly recommend both books.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 18, 2019 23:48:46 GMT -5
I've owned 4 dogs in my life.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 19, 2019 21:20:26 GMT -5
Answer to Job
On p. 60. I've gotten lost in several of his arguments because he makes references to events in the Bible and cultural movements in history that I'm unfamiliar with. Also, he uses a lot of GRE words (e.g., pleroma, psychopomp, inveigle) that I used to know that I have mostly forgotten. Sometimes, I look up the words and other times, I don't. What is most interesting about this book is that even if you get lost in Jung's arguments, there are passages here and passages there that are thoroughly entertaining. So, even if you can't see the whole picture, you can appreciate bits and pieces of it that you can see.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2019 13:01:48 GMT -5
I am reading Midnight in Chernobyl by Adam Higginbotham right now. I just started it but, it chronicles the events leading up to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Easy read so far.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 23, 2019 2:16:41 GMT -5
I am reading Midnight in Chernobyl by Adam Higginbotham right now. I just started it but, it chronicles the events leading up to the Chernobyl nuclear disaster. Easy read so far. You probably won't believe me but I put this book in my To Read table (p. 3 of this thread) on my own. I watched an interview on PBS Newshour of the author Adam Higginbotham and the book seemed interesting. And then, I just checked this post and you had recommended the same book!
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 24, 2019 17:55:49 GMT -5
Answer to Job (p.94 of 108)
Almost done. One thing that really comes across in this book is that Jung really likes to take God to task for his omniscience -- and the irony and illogic of His inability to take advantage of said omniscience. As early as p. 10, Jung writes:
Yahweh regrets having created human beings, although in his omniscience he must have known all along what would happen to them.
In the book, Jung makes one argument after another about one thing or other, but always returns to the utter mystery of God's omniscience, as in, if He had omniscience, why does He let Satan bamboozle Him? How could He have not seen this coming? Why do things happen that completely baffle Him? In other words, why have this superpower if He never uses it? It's like Trump saying he's smart but there's no demonstration of it whatsoever.
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Post by mln59 on Apr 25, 2019 8:11:12 GMT -5
Answer to Job (p.94 of 108) Almost done. One thing that really comes across in this book is that Jung really likes to take God to task for his omniscience -- and the irony and illogic of His inability to take advantage of said omniscience. As early as p. 10, Jung writes: Yahweh regrets having created human beings, although in his omniscience he must have known all along what would happen to them.In the book, Jung makes one argument after another about one thing or other, but always returns to the utter mystery of God's omniscience, as in, if He had omniscience, why does He let Satan bamboozle Him? How could He have not seen this coming? Why do things happen that completely baffle Him? In other words, why have this superpower if He never uses it? It's like Trump saying he's smart but there's no demonstration of it whatsoever. it felt like jung was positing that Yahweh had omniscience but did not consult it fully. in a way, yahweh didn't self-reflect as hoo-mans do because yahweh didn't need to
it was during job's trials that yahweh began to introspect.
i still feel that this book is one of my most favorite reading experiences in the last 10 years. good stuff.
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 28, 2019 20:55:56 GMT -5
Answer to Job (by Carl Jung)
Done! Very good book -- in bursts here and there. Some arguments were incomprehensible because I lacked the prerequisite historical or Biblical context. I thought I had a pretty good knowledge of the Bible and history but Jung pulls a lot of obscure rabbits out of his hat.
Sometimes, he would have nested arguments: Here's my Argument#1 and here are reason#1 and reason#2. Reason#2 presupposes sub-argument#1a and sub-argument#1b. Let's talk about them at length by bringing up something from the Greeks and some obscure cultural practice. Blah blah blah. Now that we're done with that, let's now turn to reason#3. Now, this reason#3 also assumes three things: this, that, and the other. And so forth...
Jung's point for the entire book, it seems, is to answer Job's question "Why?" in two parts:
1. God (or Yahweh) seems to lack self-consciousness or self-reflection despite his omniscient powers and therefore, he breaks countless laws that he himself created. He's utterly lacking in what we would call "conscience." He's basically unaware of what He's doing and why He's doing it.
2. God is jealous of (or envies) man himself (e.g., Job). In essence, God wishes He was more like man and less like Himself.
But Jung doesn't really answer Job's "Why?" question. Instead, he psycho-analyzes why God doesn't answer that question. Short answer: he's a prick who lacks self-reflection and moral boundaries. God throws a tantrum and Job goes, "Oy vey, never mind I asked."
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Post by Wolfgang on Apr 28, 2019 20:58:29 GMT -5
Rising Tide (by John Barry)
Started today. Damn good book so far. The Mississippi flood of 1927 and how it shaped America.
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Post by nowhereman on May 2, 2019 18:07:36 GMT -5
Just started "Bolivar: American Liberator" by Marie Arana. I know absolutely nothing about South America or its history so figured I may as well get started.
Before "Bolivar" finished "Casey Stengel" by Marty Appel. Yes he was a baseball manager and led the Yankees to five straight titles but I read it more for the humor and his malapropisms than the action on the field.
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Post by nowhereman on May 2, 2019 18:58:26 GMT -5
Not trying to hijack this thread but reading Edgar Allan Poe's "The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym" made me appreciate non-fiction that much more.
I couldn't wait to get back to NF after struggling through that one. Short stories fine. His only novel - not so much.
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