National POY Award

[USAFAN]

The only reason I can think that they wouldn't give Stacy Gordon the award is because they are not in the final four. History has shown that the POY goes to a player on a Final Four team. As far back as 1996, the last POY I can remember, has been in the final four.

[DiggUH]

roofed! said:

I always thought that most coaches would vote after the national championship matches. So, Ohio State not being in the FF may have hurt Gordon's chances. Although no NPOY player has come from non-FF team before, this could be the first time if they vote for Gordon and to offset that, to name Nnamani as well for co-NPOY.

In 1989 (if I remember correctly), Teee Williams was a Co-POY along with Tara Cross of LBSU even though Hawaii didn't make the FF that year, so I think the door is still open for Gordon, though I agree with you that OSU not being in the FF has probably hurt her chances as most POY's usually do come from FF teams.

[Gorf]

	Full Season	Full Season	Conference	Conference
	Stacey Gordon

[/u][/td]
[td]Ogonna Nnamani[/u][/td]
[td]Stacey Gordon[/u][/td]
[td]Ogonna Nnamani[/u][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Games[/td]
[td]110[/td]
[td]120[/td]
[td]71[/td]
[td]65[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Games[/td]
[td]109[/td]
[td]120[/td]
[td]71[/td]
[td]65[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Attack %[/td]
[td]0.313[/td]
[td]0.288[/td]
[td]0.299[/td]
[td]0.299[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Attack %[/td]
[td]0.359[/td]
[td]0.350[/td]
[td]0.331[/td]
[td]0.352[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Attacks[/td]
[td]4357[/td]
[td]4502[/td]
[td]2887[/td]
[td]2477[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Attacks[/td]
[td]1567[/td]
[td]1588[/td]
[td]1071[/td]
[td]884[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Attacks[/td]
[td]35.97%[/td]
[td]35.27%[/td]
[td]37.10%[/td]
[td]35.69%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Attacks / Game[/td]
[td]39.61[/td]
[td]37.52[/td]
[td]40.66[/td]
[td]38.11[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Attacks / Game[/td]
[td]14.38[/td]
[td]13.23[/td]
[td]15.08[/td]
[td]13.60[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Attacks / Game[/td]
[td]36.30%[/td]
[td]35.27%[/td]
[td]37.10%[/td]
[td]35.69%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Kills[/td]
[td]2019[/td]
[td]1911[/td]
[td]1306[/td]
[td]1068[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kills[/td]
[td]763[/td]
[td]706[/td]
[td]497[/td]
[td]408[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Kills[/td]
[td]37.79%[/td]
[td]36.94%[/td]
[td]38.06%[/td]
[td]38.20%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Kills / Game[/td]
[td]18.35[/td]
[td]15.93[/td]
[td]18.39[/td]
[td]16.43[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kills / Game[/td]
[td]7.00[/td]
[td]5.88[/td]
[td]7.00[/td]
[td]6.28[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Kills / Game[/td]
[td]38.14%[/td]
[td]36.94%[/td]
[td]38.06%[/td]
[td]38.20%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Attack Errors[/td]
[td]654[/td]
[td]615[/td]
[td]444[/td]
[td]328[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Attack Errors[/td]
[td]200[/td]
[td]150[/td]
[td]143[/td]
[td]97[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Attack Errors[/td]
[td]30.58%[/td]
[td]24.39%[/td]
[td]32.21%[/td]
[td]29.57%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Attack Errors / Game[/td]
[td]5.95[/td]
[td]5.13[/td]
[td]6.25[/td]
[td]5.05[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Attack Errors / Game[/td]
[td]1.83[/td]
[td]1.25[/td]
[td]2.01[/td]
[td]1.49[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Attack Errors / Game[/td]
[td]30.86%[/td]
[td]24.39%[/td]
[td]32.21%[/td]
[td]29.57%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Service Aces[/td]
[td]163[/td]
[td]153[/td]
[td]89[/td]
[td]71[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Service Aces[/td]
[td]36[/td]
[td]23[/td]
[td]16[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Aces[/td]
[td]22.09%[/td]
[td]15.03%[/td]
[td]17.98%[/td]
[td]14.08%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Aces / Game[/td]
[td]1.48[/td]
[td]1.28[/td]
[td]1.25[/td]
[td]1.09[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Aces / Game[/td]
[td]0.33[/td]
[td]0.19[/td]
[td]0.23[/td]
[td]0.15[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Aces / Game[/td]
[td]22.29%[/td]
[td]15.03%[/td]
[td]17.98%[/td]
[td]14.08%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Service Errors[/td]
[td]250[/td]
[td]227[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Service Errors[/td]
[td]55[/td]
[td]33[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Errors[/td]
[td]22.00%[/td]
[td]14.54%[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Service Errors / Game[/td]
[td]2.27[/td]
[td]1.89[/td]
[td]0.00[/td]
[td]0.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Service Errors / Game[/td]
[td]0.50[/td]
[td]0.28[/td]
[td]0.00[/td]
[td]0.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Service Errors / Game[/td]
[td]22.20%[/td]
[td]14.54%[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[td]0.00%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Digs[/td]
[td]1764[/td]
[td]1855[/td]
[td]1197[/td]
[td]1010[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Digs[/td]
[td]404[/td]
[td]264[/td]
[td]293[/td]
[td]138[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Digs[/td]
[td]22.90%[/td]
[td]14.23%[/td]
[td]24.48%[/td]
[td]13.66%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Digs / Game[/td]
[td]16.04[/td]
[td]15.46[/td]
[td]16.86[/td]
[td]15.54[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Digs / Game[/td]
[td]3.71[/td]
[td]2.20[/td]
[td]4.13[/td]
[td]2.12[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Digs / Game[/td]
[td]23.11%[/td]
[td]14.23%[/td]
[td]24.48%[/td]
[td]13.66%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Blocks[/td]
[td]274[/td]
[td]398[/td]
[td]265[/td]
[td]215[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Block Solo[/td]
[td]11[/td]
[td]44[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]22[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Block Assist[/td]
[td]54[/td]
[td]35[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Blocks[/td]
[td]38[/td]
[td]61.5[/td]
[td]21.5[/td]
[td]29.5[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Blocks[/td]
[td]13.87%[/td]
[td]15.45%[/td]
[td]8.11%[/td]
[td]13.72%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Blocks / Game[/td]
[td]2.49[/td]
[td]3.32[/td]
[td]3.73[/td]
[td]3.31[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Blocks / Game[/td]
[td]0.35[/td]
[td]0.51[/td]
[td]0.30[/td]
[td]0.45[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Blocks / Game[/td]
[td]14.00%[/td]
[td]15.45%[/td]
[td]8.11%[/td]
[td]13.72%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td]**[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Points[/td]
[td]2456.00[/td]
[td]2462.00[/td]
[td]1660.00[/td]
[td]1354.00[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Points[/td]
[td]837.00[/td]
[td]790.50[/td]
[td]534.50[/td]
[td]447.50[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Points[/td]
[td]34.08%[/td]
[td]32.11%[/td]
[td]32.20%[/td]
[td]33.05%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Team Points / Game[/td]
[td]22.33[/td]
[td]20.52[/td]
[td]23.38[/td]
[td]20.83[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Points / Game[/td]
[td]7.68[/td]
[td]6.59[/td]
[td]7.53[/td]
[td]6.88[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]% of Points / Game[/td]
[td]34.39%[/td]
[td]32.11%[/td]
[td]32.20%[/td]
[td]33.05%[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

[Gorf]

The conference stats for both didn't include service errors, I'd guess that Ogonna would still have had fewer service errors in conference since she had fewer for the entire season.

I modified the "total blocks" calculation from the charts to be what it is for individual matches and for the entire team. That bein (Block Solos + 1/2 Block Assists) as that is the number that is also used in calculating total points for players and is the number that allows a normal comparison to the percentage of team blocks for each player.

Ogonna did show improvement on offensive categories in conference where Stacey did not.

Both decreased in blocks in conference.

Stacey increased in digs in conference while Ogonna dropped.


Both are amazing players, though I still contend that Stacey's advantage defensively gives her an overall edge.

As others have pointed out though, Ogonna getting to the final four also gives her an edge.

[cbrown1709]

[quote author=(R)uffda! link=board=general&thread=1102830256&start=38#2 date=1102872602]Answer me this: who is the better volleyball player, Logan Tom or Ogonna Nnamani?

Because Stacey is Logan with better offensive skills.
[/quote]

Ok, you have got to be kidding right? Logan may not bring the heat Stacey has but she is so much smarter in her hitting all the way around. And defensively Logan is still above Gordon. I kow your basing your opinion on the olympics, just compare the caliber there too. Yes Logan struggled in that one tournament, but day in and day out she is the best on her team in Italy and their level of play is was above the college level. And for blocking, Logan puts both ot shame and I personally think her serve is more consistant and dangerous than Stacey. Buddy you were way off on this comment.

[sIsam]

cbrown1709 said:

Yes Logan struggled in that one tournament, but day in and day out she is the best on her team in Italy and their level of play is was above the college level.

I do not want to get into the who is better debates but just want to say that there're are quite a few players Logan Tom's caliber in Italy's Serie A and some (granted not very many) better. Even on her team, with both of them healthy Virna is as good as even better than Tom.

No question that LT is a very good player and I've always said that the US needs more like her for Team USA to be successful. However, it seems to me like since such complete players are a novelty for the US system, Tom is thought to be great. She might have been during her NCAA career but internationally she's just a very good player and not as great as many people on this board think her to be...

[bigfan]

sIsam said:

I do not want to get into the who is better debates but just want to say that there're are quite a few players Logan Tom's caliber in Italy's Serie A and some (granted not very many) better. Even on her team, with both of them healthy Virna is as good as even better than Tom. She might have been during her NCAA career but internationally she's just a very good player and not as great as many people on this board think her to be...

Tell it like it is siSam, take these poster's to the woodshed and spank them. You give this at times myopic board an international feel and truth. Thanks for the international flavor and insights.

[cbrown1709]

sIsam said:

I do not want to get into the who is better debates but just want to say that there're are quite a few players Logan Tom's caliber in Italy's Serie A and some (granted not very many) better. Even on her team, with both of them healthy Virna is as good as even better than Tom.

No question that LT is a very good player and I've always said that the US needs more like her for Team USA to be successful. However, it seems to me like since such complete players are a novelty for the US system, Tom is thought to be great. She might have been during her NCAA career but internationally she's just a very good player and not as great as many people on this board think her to be...

Yeah I understand that and I didn't say she was best in the world buy far, but I just remembered that Stacey didn't even make her national team who couldn't even qualify for the olympics.

[BigTen4]

dishdaball said:

Okay - I wasn't going to post but after reading everything else...what the heck. Have seen both players (Stacey and Ogonna) and agree that Stacey is a much more rounded player. Stacey was the force of the OSU team. Ogonna carries the Cardinal on her back. IMO the two differ greatly in one area......
When pressed in a match, I observed Ogonna remains pretty calm and tries to help her teammates. I observed Stacey trying to make all the plays, often yelling at her teammates when errors occur. If looks could kill Stacey would have been on the court by herself. I'm sure that this is a reflection of the type of personalities involved and is definitely not meant as a criticism but more of an observation that perhaps the stats aren't the only thing that make a POY.....................

Did you hear what she was saying? "Looks can be deceiving" Intensity has another face on some people. Let me be the first to tell you Stacey NEVER criticizes her teammates. Words of encouragement are ALL you will get from her. You don't see her scream and jump and fly around out there after she makes a kill---it's just line up and get back to business---as opposed to those who are lucky or talented enough to make a block on her and they do a victory dance, jump for the clouds and scream like banshees--even if it's the first point of the match!!

[sIsam]

cbrown1709 said:

but I just remembered that Stacey didn't even make her national team who couldn't even qualify for the olympics.

Did I say anything about Stacey Gordon??

[BigTen4]

As others have pointed out though, Ogonna getting to the Final Four also gives her an edge.[/quote]
Final Four, Final Four, Final Four!!! Is this award not Player of the Year? The NCAA season? In both players do they have to do EVERYTHING? It already appears they do the lion's share but because the team doesn't get the "W" either must be less deserving of the award?

[hwy101]

Stacey Gordon - great player!

Ogonna Nnamani - great player!, 2001 NCAA champion, 2002 finalist, 2004 Final Four.

Winning an NCAA title, priceless!

Not going to any final 4 in your career even though you are the best of the best, SUCKS!!

[BigTen4]

cbrown1709 said:

Yeah I understand that and I didn't say she was best in the world buy far, but I just remembered that Stacey didn't even make her national team who couldn't even qualify for the olympics.

What do you mean you just remembered?? You obviously don't know that Stacey trained with the National team at age 17--when she was the captain of the Junior National team for two years. She has trained often with the nationals but committments to school--which she attends all year--and instruction at summer volleyball camps for kids in the Columbus area have kept her from remaining with the team. They are forever contacting her wanting her to commit to the program but other things do not allow that at this time. Sure the team is weak but that is mostly because the players are not encouarged to stay in Canada and the opportunities to come to the US are just too attractive. That is one of your worst, least fact-based posts you have entered!! Do your homework before you post guesses!!

[hwy101]

BigTen4 said:

What do you mean you just remembered?? You obviously don't know that Stacey trained with the National team at age 17--when she was the captain of the Junior National team for two years. She has trained often with the nationals but committments to school--which she attends all year--and instruction at summer volleyball camps for kids in the Columbus area have kept her from remaining with the team. They are forever contacting her wanting her to commit to the program but other things do not allow that at this time. Sure the team is weak but that is mostly because the players are not encouarged to stay in Canada and the opportunities to come to the US are just too attractive. That is one of your worst, least fact-based posts you have entered!! Do your homework before you post guesses!!

cbrown1709 was talking about the Canadian team trying to qualify for the 2004 Olympics (where Stacey was not a member) and not when Stacey was 17 years old.

Both of you are correct though.

[Gorf]

HWY101 said:

cbrown1709 was talking about the Canadian team trying to qualify for the 2004 Olympics (where Stacey was not a member) and not when Stacey was 17 years old.

Both of you are correct though.

Actually, cbrown was stating that Stacey wasn't good enough to make the Canadian National Team that didn't make the Olympics and using that as his comparison of Stacey and Ogonna.

Did Stacey do anything other than potentially train with the Canadian National Team for 2004?

I though I read early in the year she was focused on preparing for the collegiate season.