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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:19:05 GMT -5
I've flown international business class, and yes, it's certainly way more pleasant than coach. I've also flown on what is essentially a private plane (test flights), and there is just no comparison between being essentially stuck in a (quite nice) seat versus being free to wander the plane, sit where you feel like, grab your own food or drinks instead of having to ask for it, etc. etc. Even though on test flights I was there because I actually had a job to do, it's still an amazingly different experience.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:22:03 GMT -5
It's clear from the document that US Soccer had no intention of offering them the same victory bonuses for World Cup wins that they would have paid the men. The payment structure for the rest of the quad might have been available to them as a choice that they turned down, but not the victory bonus payments for the World Cup. I don't think it's up to the USSF to correct an imbalanced FIFA pay structure. FIFA World Cup Bonuses: 2018 Men's World Cup - $400 million total prize pool, $38 million to the winner 2019 Women's World Cup - $30 million total prize pool, $4 million to the winner I understand this, but that's USSF's problem, not the WNT's problem. The way things are structured, USSF pays the MNT and the WNT, not FIFA.
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Post by n00b on May 3, 2020 15:23:55 GMT -5
I've flown international business class, and yes, it's certainly way more pleasant than coach. I've also flown on what is essentially a private plane (test flights), and there is just no comparison between being essentially stuck in a (quite nice) seat versus being free to wander the plane, sit where you feel like, grab your own food or drinks instead of having to ask for it, etc. etc. Even though on test flights I was there because I actually had a job to do, it's still an amazingly different experience. Well, the Women's National Team coach was quoted in the lawsuit as disagreeing with you. Saying that she didn't ask for a charter to the Olympics because flying first class was often as comfortable, if not more, than a charter.
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Post by n00b on May 3, 2020 15:25:24 GMT -5
I don't think it's up to the USSF to correct an imbalanced FIFA pay structure. FIFA World Cup Bonuses: 2018 Men's World Cup - $400 million total prize pool, $38 million to the winner 2019 Women's World Cup - $30 million total prize pool, $4 million to the winner I understand this, but that's USSF's problem, not the WNT's problem. The way things are structured, USSF pays the MNT and the WNT, not FIFA. It's not a problem, period. It's not discriminatory. The lawyer of the women's team didn't even mention it in the complaint.
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Post by c4ndlelight on May 3, 2020 15:26:45 GMT -5
I don't think it's up to the USSF to correct an imbalanced FIFA pay structure. FIFA World Cup Bonuses: 2018 Men's World Cup - $400 million total prize pool, $38 million to the winner 2019 Women's World Cup - $30 million total prize pool, $4 million to the winner I understand this, but that's USSF's problem, not the WNT's problem. The way things are structured, USSF pays the MNT and the WNT, not FIFA. Once again, this is disingenuous. They weren't going to ever match the bonuses because the USWNT was already steadfast in demanding a ton of other things (subsidizing a pro league, salaries, benefits, childcare). It's clearly not apples to apples, and the USWNT was hoping through strength of PR to hide that.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:29:07 GMT -5
I've flown international business class, and yes, it's certainly way more pleasant than coach. I've also flown on what is essentially a private plane (test flights), and there is just no comparison between being essentially stuck in a (quite nice) seat versus being free to wander the plane, sit where you feel like, grab your own food or drinks instead of having to ask for it, etc. etc. Even though on test flights I was there because I actually had a job to do, it's still an amazingly different experience. Well, the Women's National Team coach was quoted in the lawsuit as disagreeing with you. Saying that she didn't ask for a charter to the Olympics because flying first class was often as comfortable, if not more, than a charter. Apparently her players agree with me, though. And so does USSF, because they clearly stated they thought flying the men in charter flights gave them a competitive advantage over flying them in scheduled commercial.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:30:49 GMT -5
Isn't USSF some kind of voting member in FIFA? If it's not their responsibility to get more equality into FIFA's pay structure, then whose responsibility is it?
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:32:52 GMT -5
It's not a problem, period. It's not discriminatory. Really? Offering a $400M prize pool for men and a $30M prize pool for women is "not discriminatory"?
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Post by n00b on May 3, 2020 15:32:58 GMT -5
To further the World Cup bonus comparison.
Men would've received $9.375 million for winning the World Cup towards the player pool out of the total $38 million prize. Women received $110,000 per player for winning. 23 players gets you to $2.5 million of the $4 million prize.
So the men would've received 25% of the prize while the women received over 60% of their prize.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:34:05 GMT -5
To further the World Cup bonus comparison. Men would've received $9.375 million for winning the World Cup towards the player pool out of the total $38 million prize. Women received $110,000 per player for winning. 23 players gets you to $2.5 million of the $4 million prize. So the men would've received 25% of the prize while the women received over 60% of their prize. I would much rather have $9M+ than $2.5M, wouldn't you? Regardless of what percentage of the total prize pool it was?
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Post by n00b on May 3, 2020 15:34:25 GMT -5
It's not a problem, period. It's not discriminatory. Really? Offering a $400M prize pool for men and a $30M prize pool for women is "not discriminatory"? Is the difference in pay structure between the NBA and WNBA discriminatory? They are separate events that generate VASTLY different amounts of revenue.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:36:39 GMT -5
Really? Offering a $400M prize pool for men and a $30M prize pool for women is "not discriminatory"? Is the difference in pay structure between the NBA and WNBA discriminatory? They are separate events that generate VASTLY different amounts of revenue. Well yes, actually, it kind of is discriminatory, but at least there the women play a significantly shorter season than the men. (Whether they should or not is a different question. I supported the ABL and went to some of their games, but I've never attended a WNBA game. I still feel like the NBA started the WNBA to marginalize women's basketball, not to support it.)
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Post by c4ndlelight on May 3, 2020 15:39:10 GMT -5
The men have a much worse travel schedule and are going to remote places all over Central America and the Caribbean. The women don't have anything equivalent to the CONCACAF qualifying schedule the men go through. Since 2015 the women left the US 6 times (Rio Olympics, France World Cup, and friendlies in Canada, Sweden-Norway double, France-Spain double, and Portugal-Scotland). If the women had to play in San Pedro Sula Honduras 72 hours after a match in NJ, they wouldn't be flying commercial either. And the men are also at the NT "on loan" from their clubs, so they have to play two matches criss-crossing the continent and then fly back to Europe to actually get paid.
The USWNT, since they require all the women to forego foreign pro opportunities and play in the US league schedule their league around NT events. To be honest the biggest issue with the CBA is that it mandates NT players stay in the US and forego potentially higher earnings in European clubs, but that they get players to hold the line (with the exception of Lindsey Horan... for a while) but that gets swept under the rug a testament to the power of dominant cliques in the team leadership.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 3, 2020 15:44:23 GMT -5
I certainly willing to concede that the members of the WNT are not shining princesses with hearts of gold, but rather real people who are out to get a much as they can from their all-too-brief time in the public eye. All athletes tend to have this issue, due to the relentless pressures of aging and the fickleness of public attention.
But I'll also point out that women have been told for centuries that they don't deserve to get paid what men get paid because men do the real jobs and women do "women's work", and as far as I can tell (being a man), many of them are damn sick and tired of this.
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Post by c4ndlelight on May 3, 2020 15:50:55 GMT -5
It's not a problem, period. It's not discriminatory. Really? Offering a $400M prize pool for men and a $30M prize pool for women is "not discriminatory"? Can you compare how it aligns with revenue (and more importantly, profit)?
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