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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 9, 2019 21:24:36 GMT -5
^ there's another advantage to Ohio St. that a lot of schools don't have, and that is the resource that the Men's Volleyball team could/can be. That men's team is among the top 8 or so almost every year, and won the Championship recently... maybe three years ago. That may have been a factor in the AD deciding that not making the Tournament is not acceptable.
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Post by Babar on Dec 9, 2019 21:34:14 GMT -5
It's possible to do that, but it's his first season. tOSU is not BYU, it is a top 10 or top 20 place to cap a career coaching depending on the sport. It is not a place to learn on the job. Who hires a head coach that has been in women's volleyball only one year? The other part of that is that HC is not just AHC only bigger... it is completely different. It's the difference b/w Vice President and President... different worlds, different requirements. To be honest, I think the idea that Ohio State is a more prestigious than BYU in volleyball is debatable. At best (BYU is not a place to learn on the job either). But there are other examples. For example, in football, Tom Osborne succeeded legendary coach Bob Devaney and was arguably even more successful. Ohio State is a good volleyball job. It's not a great volleyball job like Stanford or Nebraska or Penn State or Texas. Ohio State has the budget to compete at the highest level and has a very supportive SWA. There are also significantly more volleyball players in Ohio than Nebraska. Women's volleyball at the OSU doesn't have the tradition of Nebraska or the fan support, but competing for national championships is about talent. And that can change in a heartbeat.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 9, 2019 21:35:11 GMT -5
^ there's another advantage to Ohio St. that a lot of schools don't have, and that is the resource that the Men's Volleyball team could/can be. That men's team is among the top 8 or so almost every year, and won the Championship recently... maybe three years ago. That may have been a factor in the AD deciding that not making the Tournament is not acceptable. There’s like 30 men’s programs total, less than 15 that are significant. Can’t really compare success between men’s and women’s programs. I think the expectation of any OSU program is compete for big ten titles and be competitive in NCAA tournament.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 9, 2019 21:35:49 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the idea that Ohio State is a more prestigious than BYU in volleyball is debatable. At best (BYU is not a place to learn on the job either). But there are other examples. For example, in football, Tom Osborne succeeded legendary coach Bob Devaney and was arguably even more successful. Ohio State is a good volleyball job. It's not a great volleyball job like Stanford or Nebraska or Penn State or Texas. Ohio State has the budget to compete at the highest level and has a very supportive SWA. There are also significantly more volleyball players in Ohio than Nebraska. Women's volleyball at the OSU doesn't have the tradition of Nebraska or the fan support, but competing for national championships is about talent. And that can change in a heartbeat. 100%
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Post by jasonr on Dec 9, 2019 21:52:40 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the idea that Ohio State is a more prestigious than BYU in volleyball is debatable. At best (BYU is not a place to learn on the job either). But there are other examples. For example, in football, Tom Osborne succeeded legendary coach Bob Devaney and was arguably even more successful. Ohio State is a good volleyball job. It's not a great volleyball job like Stanford or Nebraska or Penn State or Texas. Ohio State has the budget to compete at the highest level and has a very supportive SWA. There are also significantly more volleyball players in Ohio than Nebraska. Women's volleyball at the OSU doesn't have the tradition of Nebraska or the fan support, but competing for national championships is about talent. And that can change in a heartbeat. It's not about talent, it's about the elite talent. There isn't much of it anywhere, and where it does exist, the big 4 and the top programs of the next tier pick through it pretty quickly. Look at the PrepVB black ink that bluepenquin put together. Recruiting for volleyball is analogous to recruiting for men's basketball, not football. Where Ohio State can lean on proximity to talent in football, it's not that simple in volleyball. It's like trying to steal McDonald's all-americans from Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, and Kansas. Ohio State can pull one here and there, but those other schools stockpile them year in and year out.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 9, 2019 22:04:27 GMT -5
^ there's another advantage to Ohio St. that a lot of schools don't have, and that is the resource that the Men's Volleyball team could/can be. That men's team is among the top 8 or so almost every year, and won the Championship recently... maybe three years ago. That may have been a factor in the AD deciding that not making the Tournament is not acceptable. There’s like 30 men’s programs total, less than 15 that are significant. Can’t really compare success between men’s and women’s programs. I think the expectation of any OSU program is compete for big ten titles and be competitive in NCAA tournament. what is it about that those facts that DOESN'T make a men's team a resource to a women's team? You actually strengthened my argument. There are 43 DI Men's Volleyball teams. The very fact that there are so few elite men's volleyball programs means that at a lot of schools ... Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Illinois, Purdue, Baylor, Pitt, ... the women's team cannot take advantage of the resource the Men's team can be. So the Women's Volleyball coach at tOSU has that advantage over all those schools that don't.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 9, 2019 22:12:15 GMT -5
There’s like 30 men’s programs total, less than 15 that are significant. Can’t really compare success between men’s and women’s programs. I think the expectation of any OSU program is compete for big ten titles and be competitive in NCAA tournament. what is it about that those facts that DOESN'T make a men's team a resource to a women's team? You actually strengthened my argument. There are 43 DI Men's Volleyball teams. The very fact that there are so few elite men's volleyball programs means that at a lot of schools ... Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Illinois, Purdue, Baylor, Pitt, ... the women's team cannot take advantage of the resource the Men's team can be. So the Women's Volleyball coach at tOSU has that advantage over all those schools that don't. You’re statement was the men’s success may have played a factor in making a coaches change on the women’s side. That’s comparing apples to canned hams. It’s way easier to go to a final four on the men’s side than to win the division on the women’s side. Can I ask how the men’s program is a resource? Do you mean the ability to observe what the men are doing, bounce ideas off each other as staffs? Id agree that would be a good resource.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 9, 2019 22:17:13 GMT -5
what is it about that those facts that DOESN'T make a men's team a resource to a women's team? You actually strengthened my argument. There are 43 DI Men's Volleyball teams. The very fact that there are so few elite men's volleyball programs means that at a lot of schools ... Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Illinois, Purdue, Baylor, Pitt, ... the women's team cannot take advantage of the resource the Men's team can be. So the Women's Volleyball coach at tOSU has that advantage over all those schools that don't. Can I ask how the men’s program is a resource? Do you mean the ability to observe what the men are doing, bounce ideas off each other as staffs? Id agree that would be a good resource. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. There is also the fact that some volleyball families have boys and girls, and the cross recruiting could be helpful at times. And people (Club Directors and others) who follow both Men's and Women's volleyball will know that Ohio State won the Championship recently... good brand name.
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 9, 2019 22:18:35 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the idea that Ohio State is a more prestigious than BYU in volleyball is debatable. At best (BYU is not a place to learn on the job either). But there are other examples. For example, in football, Tom Osborne succeeded legendary coach Bob Devaney and was arguably even more successful. Ohio State is a good volleyball job. It's not a great volleyball job like Stanford or Nebraska or Penn State or Texas. Ohio State has the budget to compete at the highest level and has a very supportive SWA. There are also significantly more volleyball players in Ohio than Nebraska. Women's volleyball at the OSU doesn't have the tradition of Nebraska or the fan support, but competing for national championships is about talent. And that can change in a heartbeat. I certainly agree that they have the resources, and I think they have enough tradition that they can get on the Wisconsin/Minnesota/Illinois level if they hire the right coach. That's a big "if" of course, but still. I also think because it's not Nebraska, a new coach will have a little more leeway for a few years.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Dec 9, 2019 22:23:39 GMT -5
Can I ask how the men’s program is a resource? Do you mean the ability to observe what the men are doing, bounce ideas off each other as staffs? Id agree that would be a good resource. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. There is also the fact that some volleyball families have boys and girls, and the cross recruiting could be helpful at times. And people (Club Directors and others) who follow both Men's and Women's volleyball will know that Ohio State won the Championship recently... good brand name. Got it. I think you may be surprised how little coaches interact at a lot of the schools that have both. Of course the actual teams are usually pretty tight.
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 9, 2019 22:25:55 GMT -5
^ there's another advantage to Ohio St. that a lot of schools don't have, and that is the resource that the Men's Volleyball team could/can be. That men's team is among the top 8 or so almost every year, and won the Championship recently... maybe three years ago. That may have been a factor in the AD deciding that not making the Tournament is not acceptable. Maybe. Certainly, there are some schools that have good programs in both (UCLA, Penn State, etc.). Then again, success on the men's side hasn't exactly translated for the women at UC Irvine, Long Beach State, or Loyola Chicago. I don't think it hurts to have a good men's team, but it's not that important.
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Post by dunninla3 on Dec 9, 2019 22:27:49 GMT -5
^ you forgot Stanford!
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 9, 2019 22:36:03 GMT -5
Hence, the "etc." (I wasn't trying to make an exhaustive list, just cite a couple of examples).
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 9, 2019 22:48:44 GMT -5
Can I ask how the men’s program is a resource? Do you mean the ability to observe what the men are doing, bounce ideas off each other as staffs? Id agree that would be a good resource. Yes, that's exactly what I mean. There is also the fact that some volleyball families have boys and girls, and the cross recruiting could be helpful at times. And people (Club Directors and others) who follow both Men's and Women's volleyball will know that Ohio State won the Championship recently... good brand name. This is a pretty good point. At BYU, for example, the fact that they have a good men's program is what allowed Heather Olmstead to get the women's job in the first place when her brother and previous women's head coach, Shawn, decided to take the men's job when it opened up.
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Post by pogoball on Dec 9, 2019 23:52:03 GMT -5
This is an entertaining thread
Reading through this thread, I'm going to say that Fisher & Skinner are the two strongest resume's who have good familiarity with the region and would consider making the move. DBK would be a somewhat bold but good hire just after them.
tOSU is not a top 10 job, but I would put them in top 20-25 despite the lack of historical success.
I'm looking forward to following the hiring process
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