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Post by pepperbrooks on Dec 5, 2019 20:46:25 GMT -5
I think smaller liberals struggle at the next level. Maybe that’s why. Fleck is great on defense, not as much on serve receive. She passed a 2.34 on the season, highest in her conference among all defensive players and had a GP% of 65%. For reference, no other Libero was over 59%... She was taking half the floor tonight and was the only UCSB defender not aced in the match. So.... Yeah, her SR is good too. And she serves well. What’s GP%
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 5, 2019 20:53:07 GMT -5
Karch doesn't like Hentz all that much, does he? I've seen her play many times btw. She's a good college libero. You still don't get it? She was the best libero in the BW this year and it wasn't close. And after the awards came out you all sat around and jerked each other off in the BW thread. Her not being All BW this year made the awards look ridiculous and if you STILL can't admit that after this match, y'all look ridiculous too. I don't think she was the best libero in the Big West, regardless of the stats. I would take Harward, but that doesn't mean I think that she is bad. She's just not my pick for the best.
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Post by aznsun90 on Dec 5, 2019 21:00:29 GMT -5
Congrats to UCSB! Happy for Ruddins. It’s been a tough road for her with all those injuries.
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Post by StuffU on Dec 5, 2019 21:14:19 GMT -5
People here seem to understand your view, but don't agree with it.
That's all.
You want them to say she was the best in the Big West, a subjective assessment. It shouldn't be hard to understand others may have a different, sometimes biased, view of the best. It's an opinion, take it or leave it.
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Post by StuffU on Dec 5, 2019 21:15:26 GMT -5
and btw, Fleck was the player of the match for me, with Froley a very close second.
Fleck was great.
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Post by haw2991 on Dec 5, 2019 21:19:37 GMT -5
Her serve receive broke down a bit in set 3 but all-around, she had a great match.... Broke down? She's the only one who didn't get aced and I guarantee she led the team in GP% tonight. Glasker and Ruddins both had 2 serve receive errors. Fleck was the only one who could dig Huskey. I get that Karch was saying they were serving at her, but she was taking court from Ruddins in set 4 (as she did multiple times this year) so they were actually serving Ruddins and Fleck was taking those balls. Lindsay even said so in the post match interview... I don't get this place sometimes. None of this is hard to understand. Anyway, is what it is. She had a great game. The reaction when the awards came out, as if they proved Fleck hadn't been dominant was asinine. Ppl were even tagging me as if it proved I was wrong! Craziness. I hope those posters saw the match today. Oh and the two Liberos that WERE chosen? Neither of them made the first round of the tournament, let alone the second one. She was aced in set 3 and TXST started targeting her because her passes were not as efficient. She did steady it out again in set 4.... I never disputed her serving or defense. She was for a while the best player on the court and I posted during the match the Big West were clowns for not giving her at least HM.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Dec 5, 2019 21:26:15 GMT -5
People here seem to understand your view, but don't agree with it. That's all. You want them to say she was the best in the Big West, a subjective assessment. It shouldn't be hard to understand others may have a different, sometimes biased, view of the best. It's an opinion, take it or leave it. Yeah it's all good. Opinions are like @$$%*!*s right? Everyone has one. What I was disappointed by was that when the awards came out there seemed to be a level of gloating that they'd failed to recognize a great season from a first year starter. I repeatedly made the case with stats (apparently no one else here uses volleymetrics) but to say that Fleck wasn't deserving of a place on the All BW team is just wrong. Anyway, I'm sure she'd be happier being recognized by Karch than the BW, so all's well that ends well. Gonna cheer for The Bows and Cal Poly just as hard. Not that it's right -- but I'm imagining Fleck's digs per set is the reason why. That statistic is less useful than others, but it is what it is when it comes to awards it seems. I too prefer looking into passing %'s as well when accounting for a best libero - but we do have to consider that some liberos cover more court than others and teams have different standards when it comes to location of digs/passes. It could make some things tough to measure. No real stance on the Fleck vs. others issue though, just saying.
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Post by WahineFan44 on Dec 5, 2019 21:48:09 GMT -5
I don’t have any beef with you thinking fleck is the best. I would take Harward personally for her leadership, intensity and drive. Those can’t be taught. Regardless of stats. (Which she is fine at as well). The only thing I said was you would be mad that fleck wasn’t on a team in a joking way because it’s true. You would be. Nearly every post you’ve made is about her.
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Post by hookem1 on Dec 5, 2019 21:49:50 GMT -5
My thoughts from being at the match:
I think UCSB was the better team at every position today, setting was close but once the setting carousel started in that train wreck third set for Texas State that decided that. Fleck was outstanding as others have been saying but I was really impressed with Deni Wilson. She had some amazing kills and I think she was the best player on the court today. As for Huskey, that has to be a tough way to end your senior year. She struggled all match and even got benched. One positive was her serve today but it wasn't nearly enough for her team to win the game. Excited to see UCSB play again tomorrow, although I can't say I'll be cheering them on lol.
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Post by medusa on Dec 5, 2019 22:59:27 GMT -5
CONGRATS to UCSB women volleyball team for their first round wint against Tx. St... Good job and 5 games to go.....
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 5, 2019 23:17:19 GMT -5
Yeah it's all good. Opinions are like @$$%*!*s right? Everyone has one. What I was disappointed by was that when the awards came out there seemed to be a level of gloating that they'd failed to recognize a great season from a first year starter. I repeatedly made the case with stats (apparently no one else here uses volleymetrics) but to say that Fleck wasn't deserving of a place on the All BW team is just wrong. Anyway, I'm sure she'd be happier being recognized by Karch than the BW, so all's well that ends well. Gonna cheer for The Bows and Cal Poly just as hard. Not that it's right -- but I'm imagining Fleck's digs per set is the reason why. That statistic is less useful than others, but it is what it is when it comes to awards it seems. I too prefer looking into passing %'s as well when accounting for a best libero - but we do have to consider that some liberos cover more court than others and teams have different standards when it comes to location of digs/passes. It could make some things tough to measure. No real stance on the Fleck vs. others issue though, just saying. Agreed. I think this is also part of the reason that Mary Lake was on the second team instead of the first team last year. Her digs/set have actually declined every year (with a big drop between her sophomore and junior years--and she of course advanced to the Final Four in her junior year and then made the national team) because teams have learned to stop hitting at her as much and try to target her teammates instead. This is similar to a shutdown cornerback in football (they generally have low interceptions because quarterbacks avoid throwing at them), but digs/set has outsized importance when it comes to awards.
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 5, 2019 23:24:44 GMT -5
Karch doesn't like Hentz all that much, does he? I've seen her play many times btw. She's a good college libero. I think smaller liberals struggle at the next level. Maybe that’s why. Fleck is great on defense, not as much on serve receive. Not sure if that's the case. Hentz is listed at 5'9", which is taller than two of the three current national team liberos (Lake is 5'7", and Wong Orantes is 5'6").
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2019 23:46:49 GMT -5
Teams avoid hitting at her like the plague
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 5, 2019 23:56:36 GMT -5
Agreed. I think this is also part of the reason that Mary Lake was on the second team instead of the first team last year. Her digs/set have actually declined every year (with a big drop between her sophomore and junior years--and she of course advanced to the Final Four in her junior year and then made the national team) because teams have learned to stop hitting at her as much and try to target her teammates instead. This is similar to a shutdown cornerback in football (they generally have low interceptions because quarterbacks avoid throwing at them), but digs/set has outsized importance when it comes to awards. This a great analogy and I'd add that Mary Lake's efficency stats on volleymetrics back that up. 64% good pass percentage (a ridiculous number) with dig success of 82.4 and digs turned into attacks (CRT%) of 72.7%. Simply put she's EXACTLY like a shut down corner - other teams try to minimise her impact by limiting her touches but everything she does is quality. This is why I loathe the digs per set stat and will go to the grave maintaining there are better ways to analyse defensive players... Thank god for volleymetrics. Thanks for providing some statistical context. Out of curiosity, where are you finding these stats? I Googled "Volleymetrics" and wasn't sure where to go.
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Post by bbg95 on Dec 6, 2019 0:28:34 GMT -5
Thanks for providing some statistical context. Out of curiosity, where are you finding these stats? I Googled "Volleymetrics" and wasn't sure where to go. It's an advanced analytics site used by national teams, pro clubs, D1 schools and top club teams. It's invaluable in terms understanding the analytics but also allows you to sort players through a plethora of efficiency statistics. For instance you can see how frequently teams win points in each rotation (so you can better understand how and why certain rotations work and others don't), you can see if hitters are more likely to hit into a block or miss the court on errors, you can see the total points won on any player's serve - rather than just trying to use aces to judge who is serving tough, and a whole host more. It's funny that certain posters in the BW thread got so upset by my use of it. I like finding players that aren't getting the recognition they deserve - like Fleck (whose statistical dominance is virtually identical to Mary Lake's this year) and giving them props. Some members of the VT mafia don't appreciate statistical data being presented when opinions and conjecture are their preferred form of analysis! If you have any affiliation to a program ask if they can assign you with an account at volleymetrics.com - I've found it very rewarding. I see. Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I am not affiliated with any of the programs you mentioned. Out of curiosity, do they adjust for the quality of the competition? For example, UCSB was 92nd in strength of schedule, while BYU was 47th (this may not be the best measure of SoS, but it's all I've got). Either way, it sounds like it's more insightful than the antiquated volleyball statistics that are publicly available. Edit: Also, while I'm on the subject, what do the Volleymetrics stats say about Jordan Thompson?
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