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Post by bluemagic on Jan 29, 2020 14:47:16 GMT -5
I'm surprised Notre Dame didn't have any selections. BC either.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 29, 2020 15:10:22 GMT -5
I'm surprised Notre Dame didn't have any selections. BC either. If you're a fan of those schools, just say it shows how academically rigorous they are. Looking at the listed majors, it's easy to conclude that many are opting for "soft" degrees. As an ACC fan, I'm slightly disappointed in that. I think one of the best reasons for picking a school in the conference is that it is at a high level academically. Student athletes which don't choose a solid degree sort of waste that in my eyes. I want these girls to succeed on the court and also in life afterwards. I'm not sure that some of them are setting themselves up well for that with their degree selections.
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Post by jcvball22 on Jan 29, 2020 15:24:58 GMT -5
I'm surprised Notre Dame didn't have any selections. BC either. If you're a fan of those schools, just say it shows how academically rigorous they are. Looking at the listed majors, it's easy to conclude that many are opting for "soft" degrees. As an ACC fan, I'm slightly disappointed in that. I think one of the best reasons for picking a school in the conference is that it is at a high level academically. Student athletes which don't choose a solid degree sort of waste that in my eyes. I want these girls to succeed on the court and also in life afterwards. I'm not sure that some of them are setting themselves up well for that with their degree selections. 75% of college graduates do not work in a field related to their major. It has very little bearing on the outcome for employment. Being a college athlete, however, is a highly desirable trait in a hire in a lot professions for a variety of reasons (teamwork-oriented, time management skills, etc).
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 29, 2020 16:07:36 GMT -5
I'm surprised Notre Dame didn't have any selections. BC either. If you're a fan of those schools, just say it shows how academically rigorous they are. Looking at the listed majors, it's easy to conclude that many are opting for "soft" degrees. As an ACC fan, I'm slightly disappointed in that. I think one of the best reasons for picking a school in the conference is that it is at a high level academically. Student athletes which don't choose a solid degree sort of waste that in my eyes. I want these girls to succeed on the court and also in life afterwards. I'm not sure that some of them are setting themselves up well for that with their degree selections. This is absurd
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Post by aardvark on Jan 29, 2020 20:47:33 GMT -5
75% of college graduates do not work in a field related to their major. It has very little bearing on the outcome for employment. Being a college athlete, however, is a highly desirable trait in a hire in a lot professions for a variety of reasons (teamwork-oriented, time management skills, etc). Right. When my two sons graduated from college, they initially were working as regular workers at a restaurant. After 2 years, both were able to find employment in jobs based on their college degree. However, by your measurement of simply having employment, their first post-college jobs would be deemed by you as a success. Well, it's better than not having a job at all, but I would reserve a label of success for a higher standard than just that.
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Post by jcvball22 on Jan 29, 2020 22:42:34 GMT -5
75% of college graduates do not work in a field related to their major. It has very little bearing on the outcome for employment. Being a college athlete, however, is a highly desirable trait in a hire in a lot professions for a variety of reasons (teamwork-oriented, time management skills, etc). Right. When my two sons graduated from college, they initially were working as regular workers at a restaurant. After 2 years, both were able to find employment in jobs based on their college degree. However, by your measurement of simply having employment, their first post-college jobs would be deemed by you as a success. Well, it's better than not having a job at all, but I would reserve a label of success for a higher standard than just that. I didn’t say first job of their career. But nothing I love more than a doubly condescending comment from uninformed people. Don’t worry, breaking down these kind of numbers and knowing outcomes for college students post graduation is my day job. But I’m sure your ad hominem comment holds more weight than that.
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Post by odinaka on Jan 29, 2020 22:58:31 GMT -5
I'm surprised Notre Dame didn't have any selections. BC either. If you're a fan of those schools, just say it shows how academically rigorous they are. Looking at the listed majors, it's easy to conclude that many are opting for "soft" degrees. As an ACC fan, I'm slightly disappointed in that. I think one of the best reasons for picking a school in the conference is that it is at a high level academically. Student athletes which don't choose a solid degree sort of waste that in my eyes. I want these girls to succeed on the court and also in life afterwards. I'm not sure that some of them are setting themselves up well for that with their degree selections. Always amazes me when folks blatantly display their ignorance while talking in absolutes. What in your gloriously brilliant ignorance is a “solid degree”? Are you aware that you can major pretty much in anything in college and then pursue a professional degree? Music majors can go to law or medical school for eff sake! All they need to do is take requisite classes. Sheesh 😒
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Post by volleynerdmw on Jan 29, 2020 23:26:17 GMT -5
Sooooo how bout them Hokies!
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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 7:29:26 GMT -5
JCV: I didn’t say first job of their career. Me: No, but your 75% quote doesn't make a distinction about where in their career they are, or the struggles they may have gone through in getting a quality job, handicapped by having a low value degree. Sure, with grit and determination, you can overcome a bad start and end up being successful. But why go through that when you can instead get off to a faster start that gives your life a better trajectory? JCV: But nothing I love more than a doubly condescending comment from uninformed people. Me: Yep, I'm really feeling the love here. I'm not sure what makes you an expert in my level of knowledge. You seem to presume much. JCV: Don’t worry, breaking down these kind of numbers and knowing outcomes for college students post graduation is my day job. But I’m sure your ad hominem comment holds more weight than that. Me: Is your day job in your degreed field? Does your job provide you with a decent standard of living? Speaking for myself, my degrees are in computer science. I got a job immediately upon graduation from college and have worked in my degree field ever since. This hasn't led to a perfect life for me, but it is true that I haven't ever struggled financially.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 7:40:54 GMT -5
Odinaka: Always amazes me when folks blatantly display their ignorance while talking in absolutes. Me: Please lessen my ignorance by informing me as to where I spoke in absolutes. I read my post again and didn't see any such thing. Odinaka: What in your gloriously brilliant ignorance is a “solid degree”? Me: Out of respect for the athletes, I was purposely circumspect in naming specific degrees that I viewed as "soft". However, it's not difficult to get a view as to which degrees actually help young people move forward in life from a money perspective. Just use google. You can use obvious lookup phrases, such as "college degrees starting salaries". Odinaka: Are you aware that you can major pretty much in anything in college and then pursue a professional degree? Music majors can go to law or medical school for eff sake! All they need to do is take requisite classes. Sheesh 😒 Me: I have more than one degree myself, so the answer to your question is yes. In my career field of computer programming, many of the people in it started out with some other major before crossing over into the field, unlike me. Their alternative start didn't prevent them from accruing the learning to become good at their job. However, it did seem to universally get them off to a worse start financially than they would have been in had they just chosen that major in the beginning.
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Post by jcvball22 on Jan 30, 2020 11:12:56 GMT -5
JCV: I didn’t say first job of their career. Me: No, but your 75% quote doesn't make a distinction about where in their career they are, or the struggles they may have gone through in getting a quality job, handicapped by having a low value degree. Sure, with grit and determination, you can overcome a bad start and end up being successful. But why go through that when you can instead get off to a faster start that gives your life a better trajectory? JCV: But nothing I love more than a doubly condescending comment from uninformed people. Me: Yep, I'm really feeling the love here. I'm not sure what makes you an expert in my level of knowledge. You seem to presume much. JCV: Don’t worry, breaking down these kind of numbers and knowing outcomes for college students post graduation is my day job. But I’m sure your ad hominem comment holds more weight than that. Me: Is your day job in your degreed field? Does your job provide you with a decent standard of living? Speaking for myself, my degrees are in computer science. I got a job immediately upon graduation from college and have worked in my degree field ever since. This hasn't led to a perfect life for me, but it is true that I haven't ever struggled financially. My degree is not in the field in which I currently work. And I do quite well, thank you. In fact, no job I have ever held has been within my degree field. Just like the nearly 75% of student that have graduated in the last 15 years.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 11:54:33 GMT -5
My degree is not in the field in which I currently work. And I do quite well, thank you. In fact, no job I have ever held has been within my degree field. Just like the nearly 75% of student that have graduated in the last 15 years. Would you have done better if you graduated with a degree that was in your eventual career field? It's like the other guy said, you can change degrees in graduate school, but why would you, if you made a responsible choice with your bachelor's degree? If this is about being a well-rounded person, then why not get the money maker degree first and round yourself second, when you have the money coming in to indulge yourself without incurring great debt? Also, I'd like to point out that we're living in times of historically low unemployment rates. When the economy turns south, as it inevitably must do, the people that take the hit first are the marginal workers. In the case of kids fresh out of college, that's often viewed as the ones holding "soft" degrees. Note that I'm arguing a shade of gray here. Society needs all degrees. It's just that some are over-represented among the population. Also note that although I'm lamenting a list of degrees of ACC students, I'd be willing to bet that the Academic All-American list of other conferences (and other sports) would show a similar slant towards "soft" degrees. Being a college student is hard. Doing so while also playing a sport is harder. Given that most sports don't lead to a career, it is best for the student's welfare to gain a degree that gives them a sound foundation to build their life upon.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 30, 2020 12:14:33 GMT -5
My degree is not in the field in which I currently work. And I do quite well, thank you. In fact, no job I have ever held has been within my degree field. Just like the nearly 75% of student that have graduated in the last 15 years. Would you have done better if you graduated with a degree that was in your eventual career field? It's like the other guy said, you can change degrees in graduate school, but why would you, if you made a responsible choice with your bachelor's degree? If this is about being a well-rounded person, then why not get the money maker degree first and round yourself second, when you have the money coming in to indulge yourself without incurring great debt? Also, I'd like to point out that we're living in times of historically low unemployment rates. When the economy turns south, as it inevitably must do, the people that take the hit first are the marginal workers. In the case of kids fresh out of college, that's often viewed as the ones holding "soft" degrees. Note that I'm arguing a shade of gray here. Society needs all degrees. It's just that some are over-represented among the population. Also note that although I'm lamenting a list of degrees of ACC students, I'd be willing to bet that the Academic All-American list of other conferences (and other sports) would show a similar slant towards "soft" degrees. Being a college student is hard. Doing so while also playing a sport is harder. Given that most sports don't lead to a career, it is best for the student's welfare to gain a degree that gives them a sound foundation to build their life upon. I’ve got an idea, why not let kids pursue degrees in the area they like. All of this comes from a list of kids excelling academically at very good schools while participating in athletics. What was most absurd about your point was that graduates at ND and BC should be proud they weren’t represented as it shows how rigorous those schools are academically? More rigorous than Duke who had two??? “Soft degree” is IMO a ludicrous term on many levels. Bottom line these kids who are driven, excelled academically at good schools, are going to find work and do well for themselves. Definition of “well” is not of course make lots of money. It’s make a living, make a difference, be happy.
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Post by jcvball22 on Jan 30, 2020 12:40:16 GMT -5
My degree is not in the field in which I currently work. And I do quite well, thank you. In fact, no job I have ever held has been within my degree field. Just like the nearly 75% of student that have graduated in the last 15 years. Would you have done better if you graduated with a degree that was in your eventual career field? It's like the other guy said, you can change degrees in graduate school, but why would you, if you made a responsible choice with your bachelor's degree? If this is about being a well-rounded person, then why not get the money maker degree first and round yourself second, when you have the money coming in to indulge yourself without incurring great debt? Also, I'd like to point out that we're living in times of historically low unemployment rates. When the economy turns south, as it inevitably must do, the people that take the hit first are the marginal workers. In the case of kids fresh out of college, that's often viewed as the ones holding "soft" degrees. Note that I'm arguing a shade of gray here. Society needs all degrees. It's just that some are over-represented among the population. Also note that although I'm lamenting a list of degrees of ACC students, I'd be willing to bet that the Academic All-American list of other conferences (and other sports) would show a similar slant towards "soft" degrees. Being a college student is hard. Doing so while also playing a sport is harder. Given that most sports don't lead to a career, it is best for the student's welfare to gain a degree that gives them a sound foundation to build their life upon. I am going to take a wild guess that you're over the age of 60. Because this entire response shows a stunning lack of grounding in the current trends in both education and workforce. And, by the way, when the economy turns south, it's the older generation that is likely to be downsized, not the younger. Cost-benefit analysis for companies does not fall on the side of retaining an aging workforce. You might call it shades of grey. I would call it the difference between orange and grey. Nothing you have posted has any grounding in the educational or hiring trends of the last 15-20 years. As gibby points out in his response to you, pursuing education in something a student is passionate about has stronger correlation to long-term job outcomes than the specific major.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 13:35:17 GMT -5
I’ve got an idea, why not let kids pursue degrees in the area they like. All of this comes from a list of kids excelling academically at very good schools while participating in athletics. What was most absurd about your point was that graduates at ND and BC should be proud they weren’t represented as it shows how rigorous those schools are academically? More rigorous than Duke who had two??? “Soft degree” is IMO a ludicrous term on many levels. Bottom line these kids who are driven, excelled academically at good schools, are going to find work and do well for themselves. Definition of “well” is not of course make lots of money. It’s make a living, make a difference, be happy. The comment about ND and BC was in jest. I was giving fans of those schools an "excuse" why they had no athletes in the list. Sure, you could let the kids decide for themselves. But be forewarned that adult level of wisdom usually doesn't happen until age 25, according to scientific studies. Decisions made before then are often... less wise. Sadly, this includes making the decisions of where to go to college and what degree to get. Individual students and families handle the choices in different ways. Some parents may make requirements if the kids goes to school on their dime. It *is* true that people are more effective working in jobs they like. However, it is often the case that kids have idealistic views of certain jobs that don't pan out when the job is actually worked. Kids are adaptable. They can recover from bad decisions (some of them, anyway). But the truth is that the fewer bad decisions made, the better the outlook.
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