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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 13:46:11 GMT -5
I am going to take a wild guess that you're over the age of 60. Because this entire response shows a stunning lack of grounding in the current trends in both education and workforce. And, by the way, when the economy turns south, it's the older generation that is likely to be downsized, not the younger. Cost-benefit analysis for companies does not fall on the side of retaining an aging workforce. You might call it shades of grey. I would call it the difference between orange and grey. Nothing you have posted has any grounding in the educational or hiring trends of the last 15-20 years. As gibby points out in his response to you, pursuing education in something a student is passionate about has stronger correlation to long-term job outcomes than the specific major. Close. I'm 59. Current trends in education and the workforce aren't necessarily correct. Given the rosy economic times we live in, I can see a permissive attitude developing as the "way to go". But like I said before, our boom is eventually going to go bust, and when it does, the future education and workforce trends may be asking people why they didn't get more valuable skills. Yes, older workers are a marginal group too. I'm looking forward to retirement myself, but since one son took 6 years to get through an out of state school, that set my plans back a bit. Given that my parents paid for my bachelor's degree in full, I was determined to do the same for my children. As I noted to Gibby, I agree that passion helps immensely. Passion burns bright. But sometimes it flames out. The best case is getting a passion for something that pays well, now and in the future.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 30, 2020 14:11:25 GMT -5
I’ve got an idea, why not let kids pursue degrees in the area they like. All of this comes from a list of kids excelling academically at very good schools while participating in athletics. What was most absurd about your point was that graduates at ND and BC should be proud they weren’t represented as it shows how rigorous those schools are academically? More rigorous than Duke who had two??? “Soft degree” is IMO a ludicrous term on many levels. Bottom line these kids who are driven, excelled academically at good schools, are going to find work and do well for themselves. Definition of “well” is not of course make lots of money. It’s make a living, make a difference, be happy. The comment about ND and BC was in jest. I was giving fans of those schools an "excuse" why they had no athletes in the list. Sure, you could let the kids decide for themselves. But be forewarned that adult level of wisdom usually doesn't happen until age 25, according to scientific studies. Decisions made before then are often... less wise. Sadly, this includes making the decisions of where to go to college and what degree to get. Individual students and families handle the choices in different ways. Some parents may make requirements if the kids goes to school on their dime. It *is* true that people are more effective working in jobs they like. However, it is often the case that kids have idealistic views of certain jobs that don't pan out when the job is actually worked. Kids are adaptable. They can recover from bad decisions (some of them, anyway). But the truth is that the fewer bad decisions made, the better the outlook. “Could” let kids decide for themselves? The idea that choosing any major or profession could be a “bad decision” is mind boggling. As is “I’m paying for your college, you’ll go where I say, and study what I tell you to” .
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Post by aardvark on Jan 30, 2020 15:52:06 GMT -5
“Could” let kids decide for themselves? The idea that choosing any major or profession could be a “bad decision” is mind boggling. As is “I’m paying for your college, you’ll go where I say, and study what I tell you to” . As I said, different families handle this differently. Most parents want what's best for their children, but a strong case can be made that a critical aspect of parenting is to teach your kids how to make decisions. In my case, I was pretty zealous about keeping my kids away from drugs or anything that had a high chance of causing serious bodily injury, which is to say I didn't give them a choice where great self-harm was possible. I also gave them consequences for modest self-harm. But I let them make their own decisions on many things, including choice of college and major. One son made a good choice on college but sub-optimal choice of major, while the other made a good choice of major but sub-optimal choice of college.
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Post by volleynerdmw on Jan 30, 2020 16:40:09 GMT -5
Just Let me know when NC State makes a coaching hire.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Jan 30, 2020 17:57:37 GMT -5
Wow it’s brisk in this thread...
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Post by dunninla3 on Jan 30, 2020 23:12:47 GMT -5
If you're a fan of those schools, just say it shows how academically rigorous they are. Looking at the listed majors, it's easy to conclude that many are opting for "soft" degrees. As an ACC fan, I'm slightly disappointed in that. I think one of the best reasons for picking a school in the conference is that it is at a high level academically. Student athletes which don't choose a solid degree sort of waste that in my eyes. I want these girls to succeed on the court and also in life afterwards. I'm not sure that some of them are setting themselves up well for that with their degree selections. Being a college athlete, however, is a highly desirable trait in a hire in a lot professions for a variety of reasons (teamwork-oriented, time management skills, etc). Very true. I have seen that in my own hiring practices, and in one particular relative who got a summer internship, and therefore a job, at Goldman Sachs entirely b/c they valued the student-athlete formative experience. In addition to the reasons jcvball22 noted, there is the noted ability to focus intently, to commit to a goal over a several year period, and an orientation toward attempting and working toward whatever it takes to win.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 31, 2020 7:03:38 GMT -5
Being a college athlete, however, is a highly desirable trait in a hire in a lot professions for a variety of reasons (teamwork-oriented, time management skills, etc). Very true. I have seen that in my own hiring practices, and in one particular relative who got a summer internship, and therefore a job, at Goldman Sachs entirely b/c they valued the student-athlete formative experience. In addition to the reasons jcvball22 noted, there is the noted ability to focus intently, to commit to a goal over a several year period, and an orientation toward attempting and working toward whatever it takes to win. If the student athletes are magically endowed with these qualities by their participation in sports, then they have them, no matter what degree they choose. It has been stipulated that such qualities are more important than the type of degree a student has. I'm not disputing that. I do not believe that all of these students are choosing these majors out of a passion for them. I'm sure that some are. But many aren't and there's a large gray area in the middle between passion and indifference. My claim is that for those who aren't truly passionate about it, it is better for the student to try to target a degree of greater value. I would also add that even those who are passionate about their career choice would be well advised to do intern work in it early to try to get a taste of reality there. The longer one travels a bad path, the more costly it becomes to get "back on track".
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 31, 2020 9:20:42 GMT -5
Very true. I have seen that in my own hiring practices, and in one particular relative who got a summer internship, and therefore a job, at Goldman Sachs entirely b/c they valued the student-athlete formative experience. In addition to the reasons jcvball22 noted, there is the noted ability to focus intently, to commit to a goal over a several year period, and an orientation toward attempting and working toward whatever it takes to win. If the student athletes are magically endowed with these qualities by their participation in sports, then they have them, no matter what degree they choose. It has been stipulated that such qualities are more important than the type of degree a student has. I'm not disputing that. I do not believe that all of these students are choosing these majors out of a passion for them. I'm sure that some are. But many aren't and there's a large gray area in the middle between passion and indifference. My claim is that for those who aren't truly passionate about it, it is better for the student to try to target a degree of greater value. I would also add that even those who are passionate about their career choice would be well advised to do intern work in it early to try to get a taste of reality there. The longer one travels a bad path, the more costly it becomes to get "back on track". Of what YOU perceive to be of greater value. I’d submit anyone pursuing a degree in question, and excelling in it, isn’t on a “bad path” just a path you don’t think is right. You are passing judgement on kids recognized for excelling in the classroom based on your idea of what’s right or wrong.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 31, 2020 10:05:48 GMT -5
Of what YOU perceive to be of greater value. I’d submit anyone pursuing a degree in question, and excelling in it, isn’t on a “bad path” just a path you don’t think is right. You are passing judgement on kids recognized for excelling in the classroom based on your idea of what’s right or wrong. Nope. As I pointed out to another person in this thread, it is easy to use google to find the starting salary of different types of majors. This is not about my perception, but about what the market is paying for different degrees. If the student athlete isn't certain of what their career should be, and the majority of college students fit that description, then it makes sense for them to explore options early and select a default that gets them off to a good start.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 31, 2020 10:18:16 GMT -5
Of what YOU perceive to be of greater value. I’d submit anyone pursuing a degree in question, and excelling in it, isn’t on a “bad path” just a path you don’t think is right. You are passing judgement on kids recognized for excelling in the classroom based on your idea of what’s right or wrong. Nope. As I pointed out to another person in this thread, it is easy to use google to find the starting salary of different types of majors. This is not about my perception, but about what the market is paying for different degrees. If the student athlete isn't certain of what their career should be, and the majority of college students fit that description, then it makes sense for them to explore options early and select a default that gets them off to a good start. Again “a good start” to YOU is about money. Not everyone equates success, happiness, fulfillment with money.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 31, 2020 10:19:17 GMT -5
My degree is not in the field in which I currently work. And I do quite well, thank you. In fact, no job I have ever held has been within my degree field. Just like the nearly 75% of student that have graduated in the last 15 years. Would you have done better if you graduated with a degree that was in your eventual career field? It's like the other guy said, you can change degrees in graduate school, but why would you, if you made a responsible choice with your bachelor's degree? If this is about being a well-rounded person, then why not get the money maker degree first and round yourself second, when you have the money coming in to indulge yourself without incurring great debt? Also, I'd like to point out that we're living in times of historically low unemployment rates. When the economy turns south, as it inevitably must do, the people that take the hit first are the marginal workers. In the case of kids fresh out of college, that's often viewed as the ones holding "soft" degrees. Note that I'm arguing a shade of gray here. Society needs all degrees. It's just that some are over-represented among the population. Also note that although I'm lamenting a list of degrees of ACC students, I'd be willing to bet that the Academic All-American list of other conferences (and other sports) would show a similar slant towards "soft" degrees. Being a college student is hard. Doing so while also playing a sport is harder. Given that most sports don't lead to a career, it is best for the student's welfare to gain a degree that gives them a sound foundation to build their life upon. “OK boomer”
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Post by cindra on Jan 31, 2020 10:36:58 GMT -5
Of what YOU perceive to be of greater value. I’d submit anyone pursuing a degree in question, and excelling in it, isn’t on a “bad path” just a path you don’t think is right. You are passing judgement on kids recognized for excelling in the classroom based on your idea of what’s right or wrong. Nope. As I pointed out to another person in this thread, it is easy to use google to find the starting salary of different types of majors. This is not about my perception, but about what the market is paying for different degrees. If the student athlete isn't certain of what their career should be, and the majority of college students fit that description, then it makes sense for them to explore options early and select a default that gets them off to a good start. For student athletes, the market pays differently. It's analogous to the prestige of schools. A STEM degree from Western Middle-of-Nowhere State probably doesn't get you as "good" a job, however you want to measure it, as a humanities degree from Dartmouth. There's something to be said for the drive and time management skills you need to be an athlete. It has a stronger in the market than you seem to think.
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Post by volleyheels10 on Jan 31, 2020 10:38:46 GMT -5
Okay....
Some news/info I have been told regarding some spring updates:
Louisville: DBK, per social media, is very impressed with her team. Feels they are on their way to a top 25 year...
GA Tech: Heard they have really used the NIVC as a bouncing board and are excelling in spring practice. Trying to identify their 2nd middle.
UNC: Coaches are very impressed with this team regardless of losing Harrison. Merkler and Phegley are bringing a lot of offense in practice. Several players esp Cox and Peck are working both pins. All around, coaching staff feels a "turn of the corner" coming.
WF: Lot of upbeat feelings regarding the coaching changes.
Have not heard about any other programs right now.
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Post by aardvark on Jan 31, 2020 11:51:33 GMT -5
Gibby: Again “a good start” to YOU is about money. Not everyone equates success, happiness, fulfillment with money.
Me: Not everyone includes me. Happiness comes primarily from personal relationships. Money is more for security and opportunity. Those aren't as good as happiness, but you shouldn't thumb your nose at them either. Money helps make life better, as long as it doesn't become an obsession.
Gibby: "OK boomer"
Me: At our last dust-up, a third party (I don't recall who) said to me in private that I was misjudging you in clumping you in with standard ACC haters like Hammer. He said that had I refrained from flaming you and instead civilly kept my focus on the topic at hand that the conversation would have had a more pleasant and helpful end. I have tried to take his advice for this conversation and see that it hasn't mattered. You continue to use petty insults that don't add anything positive to the topic. I guess he was wrong about you.
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Post by gibbyb1 on Jan 31, 2020 11:54:44 GMT -5
Gibby: Again “a good start” to YOU is about money. Not everyone equates success, happiness, fulfillment with money. Me: Not everyone includes me. Happiness comes primarily from personal relationships. Money is more for security and opportunity. Those aren't as good as happiness, but you shouldn't thumb your nose at them either. Money helps make life better, as long as it doesn't become an obsession. Gibby: "OK boomer" Me: At our last dust-up, a third party (I don't recall who) said to me in private that I was misjudging you in clumping you in with standard ACC haters like Hammer. He said that had I refrained from flaming you and instead civilly kept my focus on the topic at hand that the conversation would have had a more pleasant and helpful end. I have tried to take his advice for this conversation and see that it hasn't mattered. You continue to use petty insults that don't add anything positive to the topic. I guess he was wrong about you. “Continue to use petty insults” ? And for the record, I’m defending the ACC all academic team, while you were attempting to diminish those who made it in majors you insultingly referred to as “soft”
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