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Post by volleylearner on Aug 4, 2020 16:37:25 GMT -5
I think the notion that Trump's handling of the pandemic in terms of policy and action (not rhetoric) is neither proven good or bad. Those that don't like Trump will always pull up data that paints his handling as bad - and for this - I find that the data doesn't easily support. My impression is that you are overly-focused on stats involving cases and deaths, where I agree with your "neither proven good or bad" assessment, compared to things like supply chain managment for tests and PPE where it seems clear to me the administration has performed very poorly. It is also hard to tease apart "rhetoric" from "messaging," the latter also being important for leadership during a crisis.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,500
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 4, 2020 16:50:47 GMT -5
Here are deaths per million per month - all states with a death rate over 100 in a month. Arizona's July comes in as the 15th worse month. Florida's July #33 and Texas's July #37.
1. New York - 862 (April) 2. New Jersey - 784 (April) 3. Connecticut - 614 (April) 4. New Jersey - 503 (May) 5. Massachusetts - 500 (April) 6. Connecticut - 473 (May) 7. Massachusetts - 473 (May) 8. Rhode Island - 427 (May) 9. New Jersey - 376 (June) 10. Michigan - 353 (April) 11. Louisiana - 349 (April) 12. District of Columbia - 343 (May) 13. District of Columbia - 305 (April) 14. New York - 287 (May) 15. Arizona - 283 (July) 16. Pennsylvania - 255 (May) 17. Rhode Island - 244 (April) 18. Illinois - 240 (May) 19. Maryland - 230 (May) 20. Delaware - 220 (May) 21. Rhode Island - 219 (June) 22. Louisiana - 200 (May) 23. Mississippi - 198 (July) 24. South Carolina - 189 (July) 25. Maryland - 186 (April) 26. Illinois - 178 (April) 27. Michigan - 177 (May) 28. Pennsylvania - 174 (April) 29. Massachusetts - 174 (June) 30. Mississippi - 159 (May) 31. Indiana - 158 (April) 32. Louisiana - 157 (July) 33. Florida - 157 (July) 34. Indiana - 152 (May) 35. Delaware - 147 (June) 36. Delaware - 146 (April) 37. Texas - 143 (July) 38. Illinois - 137 (June) 39. New Hampshire - 129 (May) 40. Alabama - 128 (July) 41. Minnesota - 125 (May) 42. Colorado - 124 (April) 43. District of Columbia - 120 (June) 44. Iowa - 118 (May) 45. Colorado - 118 (May) 46. New Mexico - 114 (May) 47. Mississippi - 114 (June) 48. Maryland - 109 (June) 49. Connecticut - 106 (June) 50. Nevada - 105 (July) 51. Ohio - 101 (May) 52. Arizona - 100 (June)
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2020 17:07:20 GMT -5
I'm going to post this again. I highly recommend reading it. Or listening to it (it is very long). bluepenquin
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 4, 2020 17:15:51 GMT -5
Who the frack is Ed Yong? Why does his opinion warrant any more importance than mine, my barber Don, or the checkout lady I talk to every couple days at the supermarket?
He doesn't even have a medical degree.
Freakin' hack.
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 4, 2020 20:56:17 GMT -5
Talk about a disastrous interview for Trump. He didn't attend Lewis' funeral because Lewis didn't attend his inauguration? How old is Trump? 5 years old? ... Pettiness has no maximum age limit. (All you have to do is read the posts on VT, which are largely made by, I'm assuming, people in the 22-60 age bracket.) True. But we are posting here in our personal capacity, not as a public official where their words and actions have consequences. Lewis didn't attend George W. Bush's inauguration either, yet Bush showed up at his funeral. Bush may not even liked Lewis all that much personally, but he did the right thing publicly. Because that is what you do as a public figure. You swallow whatever personal beef you have someone and honor their public record. That is basic politics 101. And Trump failed that miserably.
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 4, 2020 21:00:03 GMT -5
The guy doing the interview was clearly biased and steering towards his political objectives. Trump is obviously politically biased and steering his answers towards his political objectives. Trump says deaths have dropped - which true. Interviewer says they are going up - which is also true. Trump says deaths are low in the US - which is true. Interviewer says deaths are high in the US - which is also true. Trump wants to compare the US to the UK, Sweden, Italy, etc... - Interviewer wants to compare the US to South Korea, Germany, etc... Neither wants to talk about the whole picture and look at the limitations in comparing the US to other countries. Trump wants to talk about % of deaths to cases being low - interviewer wants to ignore this. Trump wants to talk about the US high volume of testing being a good thing - interviewer doesn't want to talk about testing. Are you kidding me, blue?? THAT is what you got out of that interview? Yes, the interviewer is biased, toward the truth. You cannot claim that you have more cases because you test more and then also discount that your percentage of deaths per cases is better. Death per population is absolutely the correct measure here. This isn't "balance." This is you ignoring the obvious and claiming it's all about the subjectivity of truth. Well said. The interviewer actually gave Trump several chances to say something good about Lewis and he couldn't do it. Maybe he was (once again) pandering to his racist supporters who can't stand any good word about Blacks or maybe he was still nursing a grudge about him not attending his inauguaration. Or both. Either way, Trump showed his true racist colours.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 4, 2020 22:43:15 GMT -5
I dunno how a thread on COVID19 gets sidetracked into a "Trump is a racist for not acknowledging John Lewis" discussion.
Also don't know why people make such a big deal about Trump not attending Lewis' funeral or heaping praise on him.
Trump's a Washington outsider and will always be a Washington outsider. Why would he have attended the funeral (even if he was invited, which I'm sure he wasn't) just so he could be there front-and-center while every single one of his fiercest political opponents is there and the proceedings basically became a civil rights revival event in the middle of a nationwide period of civil unrest? Sit there and listen to Barack Obama blast him from the pulpit? Of the three former POTUS, the only one to give a non-political speech/eulogy was Bush.
And why would he have anything to say about Lewis anyway? To the best of my knowledge, they weren't friends. It wasn't like he had any heartfelt personal stories or anecdotes to share. Any kind of prepared, generic statement on Lewis would be spun by his opponents and superficial and insincere.
Trump on Lewis is a non-starter. It would be a lose-lose situation for anything Trump did or said in regards to Lewis.
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 4, 2020 23:39:01 GMT -5
I dunno how a thread on COVID19 gets sidetracked into a "Trump is a racist for not acknowledging John Lewis" discussion. Also don't know why people make such a big deal about Trump not attending Lewis' funeral or heaping praise on him. Trump's a Washington outsider and will always be a Washington outsider. Why would he have attended the funeral (even if he was invited, which I'm sure he wasn't) just so he could be there front-and-center while every single one of his fiercest political opponents is there and the proceedings basically became a civil rights revival event in the middle of a nationwide period of civil unrest? Sit there and listen to Barack Obama blast him from the pulpit? Of the three former POTUS, the only one to give a non-political speech/eulogy was Bush. And why would he have anything to say about Lewis anyway? To the best of my knowledge, they weren't friends. It wasn't like he had any heartfelt personal stories or anecdotes to share. Any kind of prepared, generic statement on Lewis would be spun by his opponents and superficial and insincere. Trump on Lewis is a non-starter. It would be a lose-lose situation for anything Trump did or said in regards to Lewis. You have got to be kidding me. Or you must be trolling.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 4, 2020 23:42:21 GMT -5
I dunno how a thread on COVID19 gets sidetracked into a "Trump is a racist for not acknowledging John Lewis" discussion. Also don't know why people make such a big deal about Trump not attending Lewis' funeral or heaping praise on him. Trump's a Washington outsider and will always be a Washington outsider. Why would he have attended the funeral (even if he was invited, which I'm sure he wasn't) just so he could be there front-and-center while every single one of his fiercest political opponents is there and the proceedings basically became a civil rights revival event in the middle of a nationwide period of civil unrest? Sit there and listen to Barack Obama blast him from the pulpit? Of the three former POTUS, the only one to give a non-political speech/eulogy was Bush. And why would he have anything to say about Lewis anyway? To the best of my knowledge, they weren't friends. It wasn't like he had any heartfelt personal stories or anecdotes to share. Any kind of prepared, generic statement on Lewis would be spun by his opponents and superficial and insincere. Trump on Lewis is a non-starter. It would be a lose-lose situation for anything Trump did or said in regards to Lewis. You have got to be kidding me. Or you must be trolling. I don't know why everyone on here keeps accusing me of trolling. That is my viewpoint. You don't like it? Tough. What course of action did you think or expect Trump to take on John Lewis' funeral and legacy?
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 5, 2020 0:02:23 GMT -5
You have got to be kidding me. Or you must be trolling. I don't know why everyone on here keeps accusing me of trolling. That is my viewpoint. You don't like it? Tough. What course of action did you think or expect Trump to take on John Lewis' funeral and legacy? Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. But I am also perfectly entitled to call out your post when it is nonsense and nothing but trolling, which it is. Your viewpoint is not based on reason or logic. What aspect of Trump being a "Washington outsider" makes it suitable for him to skip Lewis' funeral? There is no logic to your argument. Trump said it himself, he skipped the funeral because Lewis did not attend his inauguration. That is the definition of pettiness. Yes his funeral is a remembrance to highlight the importance of civil rights, what exactly is wrong with that? So what if his predecessors are there too? Man up, Trump. That's his duty as president. Or are you are saying Trump is against civil rights? So you just admitted that Trump is pandering to his racist supporters. Lose-lose? Nonsense. This is not about Trump pesonally knowing Lewis. This is about him being president acknowledging Lewis' role in fighting for civil rights in this country. By his absence, he signals his hostility to the idea of racial equality and civil rights.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 5, 2020 0:14:54 GMT -5
I don't know why everyone on here keeps accusing me of trolling. That is my viewpoint. You don't like it? Tough. What course of action did you think or expect Trump to take on John Lewis' funeral and legacy? Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. But I am also perfectly entitled to call out your post when it is nonsense and nothing but trolling, which it is. Your viewpoint is not based on reason or logic. What aspect of Trump being a "Washington outsider" makes it suitable for him to skip Lewis' funeral? There is no logic to your argument. Trump said it himself, he skipped the funeral because Lewis did not attend his inauguration. That is the definition of pettiness. Yes his funeral is a remembrance to highlight the importance of civil rights, what is exactly is wrong with that? So you are saying Trump is against civil rights? Thank you, you just admitted that Trump is pandering to his racist supporters. Lose-lose? Nonsense. This is not about Trump pesonally knowing Lewis. This is about him being president acknowledging Lewis' role in fighting for civil rights in this country. By his absence, he signals his hostility to the idea of racial equality and civil rights. Dude, nobody wants to listen to your stupid amateur analysis of my posts. Calling me a troll just because I put up opinions on this message board does absolutely nothing to me. I'm not gonna stop posting here just because you call me a troll. No one said logic was a prerequisite to posting on here. Reading the drivel that liberal posters like you post here every single day is proof of that. Do you think you're actually gonna win anyone reading this forum over to your viewpoint by discrediting me or my viewpoint? Here's a hint, there's NO ONE that comes here looking to be persuaded one way or another. Everyone on here already has their political stance solidified. So I'll keep posting here. You and idiot Ruffda will keep calling me a troll. I won't care. I will keep posting.
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 5, 2020 0:19:38 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. But I am also perfectly entitled to call out your post when it is nonsense and nothing but trolling, which it is. Your viewpoint is not based on reason or logic. What aspect of Trump being a "Washington outsider" makes it suitable for him to skip Lewis' funeral? There is no logic to your argument. Trump said it himself, he skipped the funeral because Lewis did not attend his inauguration. That is the definition of pettiness. Yes his funeral is a remembrance to highlight the importance of civil rights, what is exactly is wrong with that? So you are saying Trump is against civil rights? Thank you, you just admitted that Trump is pandering to his racist supporters. Lose-lose? Nonsense. This is not about Trump pesonally knowing Lewis. This is about him being president acknowledging Lewis' role in fighting for civil rights in this country. By his absence, he signals his hostility to the idea of racial equality and civil rights. Dude, nobody wants to listen to your stupid amateur analysis of my posts. Calling me a troll just because I put up opinions on this message board does absolutely nothing to me. I'm not gonna stop posting here just because you call me a troll. No one said logic was a prerequisite to posting on here. Reading the drivel that liberal posters like you post here every single day is proof of that. Do you think you're actually gonna win anyone reading this forum over to your viewpoint by discrediting me or my viewpoint? Here's a hint, there's NO ONE that comes here looking to be persuaded one way or another. Everyone on here already has their political stance solidified. So I'll keep posting here. You and idiot Ruffda will keep calling me a troll. I won't care. I will keep posting. Persuade? Where did I say my purpose is to persuade? My purpose is to call out nonsense and trolling when I see it. Its only you and idiots like holiday who keeps championing Trump. And hey, nowhere did I say you can't post. I am simply going to call it out for what it is, trolling. Don't like it? Tough. You admitted it yourself, your post don't make sense or logic. So who is talking drivel? YOU. Sorry, I have a very low tolerance for posters like you talking drivel and worshipping Trump without any reason or logic other than to sate their prejudice and hate. So hey, keep posting, I will keep calling out your nonsense.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 5, 2020 0:22:18 GMT -5
Dude, nobody wants to listen to your stupid amateur analysis of my posts. Calling me a troll just because I put up opinions on this message board does absolutely nothing to me. I'm not gonna stop posting here just because you call me a troll. No one said logic was a prerequisite to posting on here. Reading the drivel that liberal posters like you post here every single day is proof of that. Do you think you're actually gonna win anyone reading this forum over to your viewpoint by discrediting me or my viewpoint? Here's a hint, there's NO ONE that comes here looking to be persuaded one way or another. Everyone on here already has their political stance solidified. So I'll keep posting here. You and idiot Ruffda will keep calling me a troll. I won't care. I will keep posting. Persuade? Where did I say my purpose is to persuade? My purpose is to call out nonsense and trolling when I see it. Its only you and idiots like holiday who keeps championing Trump. And hey, nowhere did I say you can't post. I am simply going to call it out for what it is, trolling. Don't like it? Tough. You admitted it yourself, your post don't make sense and or form logic. Drivel? There you go again attacking others for your own problem. Sorry, I have a very low tolerance for posters like you talking drivel and worshipping Trump without any reason or logic other than to sate their prejudice and hate. So hey, keep posting, I will keep calling out your nonsense. Good! Bring it on! Tired of you stupid liberals acting like you're the only viewpoint on this board.
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Post by ironhammer on Aug 5, 2020 0:23:01 GMT -5
Persuade? Where did I say my purpose is to persuade? My purpose is to call out nonsense and trolling when I see it. Its only you and idiots like holiday who keeps championing Trump. And hey, nowhere did I say you can't post. I am simply going to call it out for what it is, trolling. Don't like it? Tough. You admitted it yourself, your post don't make sense and or form logic. Drivel? There you go again attacking others for your own problem. Sorry, I have a very low tolerance for posters like you talking drivel and worshipping Trump without any reason or logic other than to sate their prejudice and hate. So hey, keep posting, I will keep calling out your nonsense. Good! Bring it on! Tired of you stupid liberals acting like you're the only viewpoint on this board. I'm not bring anything on, I haven't even started playing with you, darling. I am simply letting you make a fool of yourself. You already said your post has no logic.
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cutshot818
Junior
2020 VT All-Rookie Team
Posts: 289
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Post by cutshot818 on Aug 5, 2020 0:25:30 GMT -5
Dude, nobody wants to listen to your stupid amateur analysis of my posts. Calling me a troll just because I put up opinions on this message board does absolutely nothing to me. I'm not gonna stop posting here just because you call me a troll. No one said logic was a prerequisite to posting on here. Reading the drivel that liberal posters like you post here every single day is proof of that. Do you think you're actually gonna win anyone reading this forum over to your viewpoint by discrediting me or my viewpoint? Here's a hint, there's NO ONE that comes here looking to be persuaded one way or another. Everyone on here already has their political stance solidified. So I'll keep posting here. You and idiot Ruffda will keep calling me a troll. I won't care. I will keep posting. Persuade? Where did I say my purpose is to persuade? My purpose is to call out nonsense and trolling when I see it. Its only you and idiots like holiday who keeps championing Trump. And hey, nowhere did I say you can't post. I am simply going to call it out for what it is, trolling. Don't like it? Tough. You admitted it yourself, your post don't make sense or logic. So who is talking drivel? YOU. Sorry, I have a very low tolerance for posters like you talking drivel and worshipping Trump without any reason or logic other than to sate their prejudice and hate. So hey, keep posting, I will keep calling out your nonsense. And nobody cares about your tolerance level. Deal with it. Here's a blast from the past. Enjoy!
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