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Post by baytree on Apr 25, 2020 13:53:09 GMT -5
It is curious that many feel that this virus is like a passing thunderstorm and if we just wait it out a couple more months it will move on.As others have mentioned, unfortunately it is here to stay. there is no guarantee of a vaccine ever, although that would be nice. we have to pick up the pieces and move on. things won't be any safer in a month than they are today, and won't be any safer in 6 months than they will be in one month. tough deal for all concerned. If things aren't safer in a month than they are today, that's a massive failure by government at all levels. I don't mean a vaccine, I mean things like more PPE, especially for frontline healthcare workers but also ppl like grocery clerks and first responders; more testing; contact tracing capabilities dramatically ramped up (so that we can test and contain); etc.
That was always one of the main points of stay-at-home/shelter-in-place, at least as I understood it. I didn't know anyone who thought there would be a cure by the end of summer, or even in less than a year./
ETA: I've heard many ppl say that one of the reasons the Bay Area went to SiP so early was bc of the limited testing supplies and contact tracing capabilities. They were screwed if the virus got out of hand and they knew it. It was worse bc of the CDC's debacle with testing but it would have been bad anyway. CA, like much of the US, needs to dramatically ramp up its contact tracing if they want to contain the virus. Budget cuts in most of the country meant downsizing health depts (which would have been inadequate for the increased demand in any event).
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 25, 2020 14:05:20 GMT -5
It is curious that many feel that this virus is like a passing thunderstorm and if we just wait it out a couple more months it will move on.As others have mentioned, unfortunately it is here to stay. there is no guarantee of a vaccine ever, although that would be nice. we have to pick up the pieces and move on. things won't be any safer in a month than they are today, and won't be any safer in 6 months than they will be in one month. tough deal for all concerned. If things aren't safer in a month than they are today, that's a massive failure by government at all levels. I don't mean a vaccine, I mean things like more PPE, especially for frontline healthcare workers but also ppl like grocery clerks and first responders; more testing; contact tracing capabilities dramatically ramped up (so that we can test and contain); etc.
That was always one of the main points of stay-at-home/shelter-in-place, at least as I understood it. I didn't know anyone who thought there would be a cure by the end of summer, or even in less than a year./
Actually the sole and exclusive reason for the quarantine was to "slow the curve" and not overrun the hospitals. That was successful. Now that the government has become the arbiter of who can open, when, and under what conditions, there are any of about a dozen reasons why we have the quarantine now, that have nothing to do with the original reason it was enacted. It's called moving the goal posts, and we now not only have a pandemic, but an economic catastrophe of Great Depression proportions. What really troubled me about the whole quarantine deal was that there was no real exit plan, and the economic cost of the quarantine was merely an afterthought. We are now in a situation where bureaucrats are firmly in control of our lives to a large extent, and taking the control back is like wresting meat from a lion. They have control and they like it. And now we have 30 million suddenly unemployed, with a bunch more to come. The economic fallout from the quarantine is going to make the health issues from the virus seem like child's play. Most don't realize this yet, but if you have your business or job by the end of this year, you will be one of the lucky ones.
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Post by baytree on Apr 25, 2020 14:07:52 GMT -5
If things aren't safer in a month than they are today, that's a massive failure by government at all levels. I don't mean a vaccine, I mean things like more PPE, especially for frontline healthcare workers but also ppl like grocery clerks and first responders; more testing; contact tracing capabilities dramatically ramped up (so that we can test and contain); etc.
That was always one of the main points of stay-at-home/shelter-in-place, at least as I understood it. I didn't know anyone who thought there would be a cure by the end of summer, or even in less than a year./
Actually the sole and exclusive reason for the quarantine was to "slow the curve" and not overrun the hospitals. Now that the government has become the arbiter of who can open, when, and under what conditions, there are any of about a dozen reasons why we have the quarantine now. It's called moving the goal posts, and we now not only have a pandemic, but an economic catastrophe of Great Depression proportions. What really troubled me about the whole quarantine deal was that there was no real exit plan, and the cost of the quarantine was a non-factor. We are now finding that bureaucrats are firmly in control of our lives to a large extent, and taking the control back is like wresting meat from a lion. They have control and they like it. And now we have 30 million suddenly unemployed, with a bunch more to come. A I said above, that's not what I heard. Slowing the curve was to lower the number of ppl that needed hospitalization (or the ICU or ventilators) but also to give the government time to ramp up contact tracing, testing, etc. That has been what many (all?) governors have tried to do.
I agree that they need to come up with exit plans. I thought that was one of the purposes of the multi-state pacts. I disagree strongly about governors not considering the economic impact. It will affect them and state budgets directly. It was a major concern.
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 25, 2020 14:20:29 GMT -5
Actually the sole and exclusive reason for the quarantine was to "slow the curve" and not overrun the hospitals. Now that the government has become the arbiter of who can open, when, and under what conditions, there are any of about a dozen reasons why we have the quarantine now. It's called moving the goal posts, and we now not only have a pandemic, but an economic catastrophe of Great Depression proportions. What really troubled me about the whole quarantine deal was that there was no real exit plan, and the cost of the quarantine was a non-factor. We are now finding that bureaucrats are firmly in control of our lives to a large extent, and taking the control back is like wresting meat from a lion. They have control and they like it. And now we have 30 million suddenly unemployed, with a bunch more to come. A I said above, that's not what I heard. Slowing the curve was to lower the number of ppl that needed hospitalization (or the ICU or ventilators) but also to give the government time to ramp up contact tracing, testing, etc. That has been what many (all?) governors have tried to do.
I agree that they need to come up with exit plans. I thought that was one of the purposes of the multi-state pacts. I disagree strongly about governors not considering the economic impact. It will affect them and state budgets directly. It was a major concern.
There are a lot of states with "plans." Many businesses are dying daily and don't have time for plans. As these bureaucrats do what bureaucrats do - have lots of meetings and form new committees - there is going to be an increasingly smaller economy to open up to. I know of several business owners who said "uncle" last week and closed up for good. We are in a series of rolling shutdowns - 14 days, 14 days, 14 days. And then whatever segments are opened up, the rules are so onerous that no business can possibly survive. I occasionally drive in to the Neiman Marcus here from time to time to get dress shirts. Well they are technically permitted to be open, but only to the extent that they can bring me a shirt out to my car. Who can survive with that sort of b.s.? Maybe that's why they are now near bankruptcy. And yet I can stroll right into Wal-Mart with a packed parking lot and pick up a package of socks and some car wax and no one says a thing. This is insanity. Our economy has been taken over by the government and we should all be way more alarmed at that than some virus. Crazy.
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Post by mastermind on Apr 25, 2020 14:22:45 GMT -5
If things aren't safer in a month than they are today, that's a massive failure by government at all levels. I don't mean a vaccine, I mean things like more PPE, especially for frontline healthcare workers but also ppl like grocery clerks and first responders; more testing; contact tracing capabilities dramatically ramped up (so that we can test and contain); etc.
That was always one of the main points of stay-at-home/shelter-in-place, at least as I understood it. I didn't know anyone who thought there would be a cure by the end of summer, or even in less than a year./
Actually the sole and exclusive reason for the quarantine was to "slow the curve" and not overrun the hospitals. Now that the government has become the arbiter of who can open, when, and under what conditions, there are any of about a dozen reasons why we have the quarantine now. It's called moving the goal posts, and we now not only have a pandemic, but an economic catastrophe of Great Depression proportions. What really troubled me about the whole quarantine deal was that there was no real exit plan, and the economic cost of the quarantine was merely an afterthought. We are now in a situation where bureaucrats are firmly in control of our lives to a large extent, and taking the control back is like wresting meat from a lion. They have control and they like it. And now we have 30 million suddenly unemployed, with a bunch more to come. Before Covid, health care system is working at close to 100 percent capacity. The reason hospitals currently have good capacity during Covid crisis is that we hold off all elective or non emergent cares in order to cope with the peak. Now we have to deal with a very heavy load of backlog in both clinics and ORs. This doesn’t mean we have no issue with hospital capacity if the country is open widely. Few large cites in California will be like NYC if they didn’t implement social isolation firm and early. We all want to go back to normalcy, and kids want to see their friends and play volleyball. We are not different in our desires to go back to normal. Most of us sacrifice to some degree for the goal of public health. However, we need to open under the guidance of public health information not politics. Unfortunately not every governor is following either CDC or federal guideline.
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Post by mastermind on Apr 25, 2020 14:28:47 GMT -5
Regardless your opinion of virus or our government, AAU with 40,000-100,000 people under one indoor space is unthinkable right now. And half of the people will not wear mask when they are playing. Maybe virus will magically disappear when we enter the summer.
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 25, 2020 14:29:24 GMT -5
Actually the sole and exclusive reason for the quarantine was to "slow the curve" and not overrun the hospitals. Now that the government has become the arbiter of who can open, when, and under what conditions, there are any of about a dozen reasons why we have the quarantine now. It's called moving the goal posts, and we now not only have a pandemic, but an economic catastrophe of Great Depression proportions. What really troubled me about the whole quarantine deal was that there was no real exit plan, and the economic cost of the quarantine was merely an afterthought. We are now in a situation where bureaucrats are firmly in control of our lives to a large extent, and taking the control back is like wresting meat from a lion. They have control and they like it. And now we have 30 million suddenly unemployed, with a bunch more to come. Before Covid, health care system is working at close to 100 percent capacity. The reason hospitals currently have good capacity during Covid crisis is that we hold off all elective or non emergent cares in order to cope with the peak. Now we have to deal with a very heavy load of backlog in both clinics and ORs. This doesn’t mean we have no issue with hospital capacity if the country is open widely. Few large cites in California will be like NYC if they didn’t implement social isolation firm and early. We all want to go back to normalcy, and kids want to see their friends and play volleyball. We are not different in our desires to go back to normal. Most of us sacrifice to some degree for the goal of public health. However, we need to open under the guidance of public health information not politics. Unfortunately not every governor is following either CDC or federal guideline. I think this is where the disconnect is. If you still have a job, it is very hard to see things for as they are right now. Folks don't realize that our economy is already in shreds, and there is precious little time left. This is going to affect everyone for a generation. Lost businesses, jobs, retirement, college attendance, housing, travel. The unemployment fund in Texas is projected to be insolvent in 3 weeks. It just isn't sustainable.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2020 14:34:49 GMT -5
Perhaps we should have something in our society to protect people and businesses during crisis. Keep them safe from shocks like this. We could call it, I don't know, a social safety net or something.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 14:36:45 GMT -5
Before Covid, health care system is working at close to 100 percent capacity. The reason hospitals currently have good capacity during Covid crisis is that we hold off all elective or non emergent cares in order to cope with the peak. Now we have to deal with a very heavy load of backlog in both clinics and ORs. This doesn’t mean we have no issue with hospital capacity if the country is open widely. Few large cites in California will be like NYC if they didn’t implement social isolation firm and early. We all want to go back to normalcy, and kids want to see their friends and play volleyball. We are not different in our desires to go back to normal. Most of us sacrifice to some degree for the goal of public health. However, we need to open under the guidance of public health information not politics. Unfortunately not every governor is following either CDC or federal guideline. I think this is where the disconnect is. If you still have a job, it is very hard to see things for as they are right now. Folks don't realize that our economy is already in shreds, and there is precious little time left. This is going to affect everyone for a generation. Lost businesses, jobs, retirement, college attendance, housing, travel. The unemployment fund in Texas is projected to be insolvent in 3 weeks. It just isn't sustainable. Maybe they are just venting?
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2020 14:38:16 GMT -5
Everyone is still acting like the only two choices were/are 1. send everyone back to work and lots of people die or 2. Lock everyone in their homes for months and let all the small businesses go bankrupt.
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Post by mastermind on Apr 25, 2020 14:45:19 GMT -5
Before Covid, health care system is working at close to 100 percent capacity. The reason hospitals currently have good capacity during Covid crisis is that we hold off all elective or non emergent cares in order to cope with the peak. Now we have to deal with a very heavy load of backlog in both clinics and ORs. This doesn’t mean we have no issue with hospital capacity if the country is open widely. Few large cites in California will be like NYC if they didn’t implement social isolation firm and early. We all want to go back to normalcy, and kids want to see their friends and play volleyball. We are not different in our desires to go back to normal. Most of us sacrifice to some degree for the goal of public health. However, we need to open under the guidance of public health information not politics. Unfortunately not every governor is following either CDC or federal guideline. I think this is where the disconnect is. If you still have a job, it is very hard to see things for as they are right now. Folks don't realize that our economy is already in shreds, and there is precious little time left. This is going to affect everyone for a generation. Lost businesses, jobs, retirement, college attendance, housing, travel. The unemployment fund in Texas is projected to be insolvent in 3 weeks. It just isn't sustainable. I understand the pain. Even though I still have work, my spouse lost job because of Covid. We are also under financial stress. I am optimistic that we will back to some normalcy especially several other countries achieved the goal with good testing/tracing/social distancing plan. But rush into opening without a solid coping plan will set us back another 1-2 months. Our kids will end up staying at home for fall semester without high school or college volleyball. That is another reason why we should not attend AAU if Covid is not under control in US.
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 25, 2020 14:45:48 GMT -5
I think this is where the disconnect is. If you still have a job, it is very hard to see things for as they are right now. Folks don't realize that our economy is already in shreds, and there is precious little time left. This is going to affect everyone for a generation. Lost businesses, jobs, retirement, college attendance, housing, travel. The unemployment fund in Texas is projected to be insolvent in 3 weeks. It just isn't sustainable. Maybe they are just venting? haha we can only hope!
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Post by volleydadtx on Apr 25, 2020 14:49:37 GMT -5
I think this is where the disconnect is. If you still have a job, it is very hard to see things for as they are right now. Folks don't realize that our economy is already in shreds, and there is precious little time left. This is going to affect everyone for a generation. Lost businesses, jobs, retirement, college attendance, housing, travel. The unemployment fund in Texas is projected to be insolvent in 3 weeks. It just isn't sustainable. I understand the pain. Even though I still have work, my spouse lost job because of Covid. We are also under financial stress. I am optimistic that we will back to some normalcy especially several other countries achieved the goal with good testing/tracing/social distancing plan. But rush into opening without a solid coping plan will set us back another 1-2 months. Our kids will end up staying at home for fall semester without high school or college volleyball. That is another reason why we should not attend AAU if Covid is not under control in US. The virus won't be under control until herd immunity. The Swedes took a different approach, had initially much higher deaths than their neighbors, but they are now quickly approaching herd immunity. Stockholm and other major population areas are projecting near 100 percent herd immunity within the next 3 to 4 weeks. Pay me now or pay me later.
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Post by mastermind on Apr 25, 2020 15:01:11 GMT -5
I understand the pain. Even though I still have work, my spouse lost job because of Covid. We are also under financial stress. I am optimistic that we will back to some normalcy especially several other countries achieved the goal with good testing/tracing/social distancing plan. But rush into opening without a solid coping plan will set us back another 1-2 months. Our kids will end up staying at home for fall semester without high school or college volleyball. That is another reason why we should not attend AAU if Covid is not under control in US. The virus won't be under control until herd immunity. The Swedes took a different approach, had initially much higher deaths than their neighbors, but they are now quickly approaching herd immunity. Stockholm and other major population areas are projecting near 100 percent herd immunity within the next 3 to 4 weeks. Pay me now or pay me later. I have been watching Sweden closely. They implement a model we could consider in the future: social distancing to some degree, wearing mask if possible, and volunteering isolation for high risk group. I hope we will have better testing/tracing than Sweden. They only test people who are sick. They do have a high death rate 12.3% and number of death per million population. They mandate gathering less than 50 people. No such thing as AAU tournament for sure.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 25, 2020 15:12:13 GMT -5
It is curious that many feel that this virus is like a passing thunderstorm and if we just wait it out a couple more months it will move on.As others have mentioned, unfortunately it is here to stay. there is no guarantee of a vaccine ever, although that would be nice. we have to pick up the pieces and move on. things won't be any safer in a month than they are today, and won't be any safer in 6 months than they will be in one month. tough deal for all concerned. If things aren't safer in a month than they are today, that's a massive failure by government at all levels. I got some bad news for you about our government's capacity to handle a crisis.
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