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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 9, 2020 19:01:19 GMT -5
Stopping for lightning now. Sarah Harper has her match against Maple/Kraft on FB. Don't know if they will finish tonight.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 9, 2020 23:47:56 GMT -5
Im not sure how grass would transform the best jumper on the AVP to something else. I cant recall ever seeing a player's jump change a ton relative to their peers in the grass/sand transition (except in grass players playing sand for the first time) and I grew up playing lots of East Coast grass when it was a huge thing. Also if he can draw a double block then hasn't he effectively done his job if Tim is hitting on the other side? I agree he will have issues with some of the nuances, but in terms of both hitting and blocking, I think he will be just fine. Id say the problem area, if any is likely to do with serving because grass tends to be very old school in terms of just bombing jump serves and receiving tough serves Either way its hard to imagine Troy is not a huge upgrade over the Bomgrens usual team, although having played together forever is probably an advantage for those 4 guys. Finally I think you are wrong about grass being more forgiving than sand. A set 7 feet off to a good hitter on grass is much less of an issue than the same set on sand and for that reason weaker passers suffer less. I am not saying he won't be flying, I just think transitioning to an indoor style approach in conjunction with all the other top players there I don't think he will be out jumping everyone and some open players may even match or have higher touches than Troy. As far as the double block goes no, he hasn't done his job because those guys will just bunch block and then transition together out to Troy or one peels off for Tim, or if Tim is setting than of course they have to watch for a burn - if Troy sticks to hard cross swings all day he will be shut down fairly quick. The serving is where I agree with you however not really calling it old school, just an extension of current men's college indoor except with no lets. A few years ago Szerszen was there just sending ballistic nukes, if it didn't hit the net and stayed in it was a point almost every single time. Troy is definitely an upgrade over Vanort, but I don't think he is going to come in and be leaps and bounds better than the other guys they are competing against, especially when you get into the quarters and maybe even pre quarters. I don't understand where you think I am wrong, I said grass was more forgiving to a complete player and I don't think Troy is a complete player. There will be guys there that are more complete in multiple skills than he is, while his team will def be able to recover, I think Troy swinging 7 feet off the net in the grass with at least 2, possibly 3, defenders back will not produce an automatic kill but it is not like he is falling backwards in the sand trying to punch it over. Look at Dache, Michelue, Goldsmith, Del Sol, etc. and tell me that Troy is going to be a more effective grass player than those guys this weekend, I don't think you can. The grass thing was a misunderstanding, I took that to mean that you thought sand was better for a limited player. I dont think he needs to be more effective than those guys to win, but I do think he will be better than some of them. I have only seen Del Sol play grass doubles but I wasn't particularly impressed with him and think Troy will likely be much better just based on his physicality. Goldsmith I havent seen, but Dache and Michelau I saw play Kolinske/Beranek at Pottstown. (And Ive seen Dache a few other times) Solid second tier qualifier team - meaning a threat to get in but usually wouldn't - and neither was jumping as well on grass as Troy does on sand, much less as well as Troy will on grass. Dache struggled to sideout against Billy/Eric on grass if I remember correctly. Hitting and blocking I would take Troy over either of those guys - albeit based on one match. Should be fun to see either way. Always hard to judge how sand players will do on grass. Some, like Phil and Nick, struggle whereas others, like Beranek, are like penguins in water.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 9, 2020 23:49:59 GMT -5
Where are you guys watching?
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Post by graham on Jul 10, 2020 8:09:05 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there: We are trying to extrapolate Troy's grass performance by examining other players' experience going from grass to sand, which is fine. But let's not forget, we're comparing a player who has made several semifinals on the AVP to players who are consistently in the qualifier and rarely win main draw matches when they make it.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 10, 2020 8:40:42 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there: We are trying to extrapolate Troy's grass performance by examining other players' experience going from grass to sand, which is fine. But let's not forget, we're comparing a player who has made several semifinals on the AVP to players who are consistently in the qualifier and rarely win main draw matches when they make it. Good points, but don't forget, this isn't grass doubles. 3s has an element of indoor to it, which no one is sure where Troy fits there. Big indoor servers and players who are used to terminating from the back row can overcome a beach player's need to execute. The indoor guys can move along the net blocking better too.
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Post by butteryhands on Jul 10, 2020 9:24:01 GMT -5
We may never know. Crazy rainfall is putting the tourney in jeopardy. Fingers crossed.
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Post by haze on Jul 10, 2020 11:40:06 GMT -5
We may never know. Crazy rainfall is putting the tourney in jeopardy. Fingers crossed. I'm hearing triples is likely going to be cancelled unfortunately.
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Post by volleymom2016 on Jul 10, 2020 12:16:18 GMT -5
Friday Grass Tournaments Cancelled
Email from Waupaca just sent: Sorry Folks, All Friday GRASS tournaments need to be cancelled. The grounds are in rough shape and haven't dried up enough. If we were to play on them today, we would risk destroying the courts for the rest of the weekend.
We are moving the Friday Coed Quads and Men's & Women's Grass Doubles to Sunday. We will not have the Reverse Quads or Coed Grass Doubles divisions.
Juniors Quads is cancelled because we don't have an alternate option available to us on Sunday.
Saturday Triples is on as planned. Everyone do your anti-rain dance!
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 10, 2020 12:48:18 GMT -5
Just throwing this out there: We are trying to extrapolate Troy's grass performance by examining other players' experience going from grass to sand, which is fine. But let's not forget, we're comparing a player who has made several semifinals on the AVP to players who are consistently in the qualifier and rarely win main draw matches when they make it. Good points, but don't forget, this isn't grass doubles. 3s has an element of indoor to it, which no one is sure where Troy fits there. Big indoor servers and players who are used to terminating from the back row can overcome a beach player's need to execute. The indoor guys can move along the net blocking better too. Exactly what I was getting at, I am not saying Troy will suddenly be some terrible player, but rather he is a strong physical player with lots of beach specific training in recent years. I don't care how many AVP semifinals you have made none of them are against 3 other indoor savvy vets that touch as high or higher than you with complete skill sets. Those same skill sets they may use to win Waupaca will definitely not transfer over to the sand game the same way Troys's game I am assuming will not transfer to the grass with limited indoor experience and training. If this tourney happens, he is going to get blocked and I would assume they are going to serve the crap out of him and make him beat teams. But where I do agree is that he is going to get plenty of 1v1 or open net shots where we will see some monster bombs.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 10, 2020 12:54:42 GMT -5
I am not saying he won't be flying, I just think transitioning to an indoor style approach in conjunction with all the other top players there I don't think he will be out jumping everyone and some open players may even match or have higher touches than Troy. As far as the double block goes no, he hasn't done his job because those guys will just bunch block and then transition together out to Troy or one peels off for Tim, or if Tim is setting than of course they have to watch for a burn - if Troy sticks to hard cross swings all day he will be shut down fairly quick. The serving is where I agree with you however not really calling it old school, just an extension of current men's college indoor except with no lets. A few years ago Szerszen was there just sending ballistic nukes, if it didn't hit the net and stayed in it was a point almost every single time. Troy is definitely an upgrade over Vanort, but I don't think he is going to come in and be leaps and bounds better than the other guys they are competing against, especially when you get into the quarters and maybe even pre quarters. I don't understand where you think I am wrong, I said grass was more forgiving to a complete player and I don't think Troy is a complete player. There will be guys there that are more complete in multiple skills than he is, while his team will def be able to recover, I think Troy swinging 7 feet off the net in the grass with at least 2, possibly 3, defenders back will not produce an automatic kill but it is not like he is falling backwards in the sand trying to punch it over. Look at Dache, Michelue, Goldsmith, Del Sol, etc. and tell me that Troy is going to be a more effective grass player than those guys this weekend, I don't think you can. The grass thing was a misunderstanding, I took that to mean that you thought sand was better for a limited player. I dont think he needs to be more effective than those guys to win, but I do think he will be better than some of them. I have only seen Del Sol play grass doubles but I wasn't particularly impressed with him and think Troy will likely be much better just based on his physicality. Goldsmith I havent seen, but Dache and Michelau I saw play Kolinske/Beranek at Pottstown. (And Ive seen Dache a few other times) Solid second tier qualifier team - meaning a threat to get in but usually wouldn't - and neither was jumping as well on grass as Troy does on sand, much less as well as Troy will on grass. Dache struggled to sideout against Billy/Eric on grass if I remember correctly. Hitting and blocking I would take Troy over either of those guys - albeit based on one match. Should be fun to see either way. Always hard to judge how sand players will do on grass. Some, like Phil and Nick, struggle whereas others, like Beranek, are like penguins in water. Goldsmith, Dache, Michelau I would say all jump as well as Troy, and are all regulars in the Qaurters on at Waupca. And honestly whatever Dache/Michelau/Goldsmith do in the sand does not compare to what they do in the grass. I know little about Beranek prior to him playing on the AVP but a quick search shows he played at OCC, I am assuming he was a pretty solid indoor player based off how he moved and played at Pottstown.
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Post by rainmaker on Jul 10, 2020 13:03:08 GMT -5
Kraft/Maple 1 and done in the playoffs. First Pool winner to go down..
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Post by rainmaker on Jul 10, 2020 13:04:32 GMT -5
Travis, what happened? Dang....
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Post by wyomingpancake on Jul 10, 2020 13:28:28 GMT -5
Roschitz got rolled against Samuels/Cox a week ago. Samuels/Cox lost their first playoff match smh. jokesters
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Post by andlime on Jul 10, 2020 13:37:20 GMT -5
Jenness has been cleaning up on the grass circuit in the SE, but I'm surprised to see him and Dache take down AVPers
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wisco
Sophomore
Posts: 247
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Post by wisco on Jul 10, 2020 14:13:29 GMT -5
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